On Friday, January 10, 2003, at 04:44 PM, Schnitzer, Jeff wrote:
Jeff, I couldn't disagree with you more. To attract RDBMS guys you need to support RDBMS databases on the back end and full query language on the front. To attract ODBMS guys you really need transparent persistence (something like JDO) and you need fast relational navigation. Both of these can be accomplished in the same system. Think of something like JDO with a well written object cache. There are some real tricks to the implementation but they can be overcome. IMO the reason we don't have this type of system today is the RDBMS guys don't care about the object guys and the ODBMS guys are in marc's words "wee-wee touching OO guys".IMHO, trying to create a general-purpose persistence mechanism that abstracts both RDBMS and ODBMS data stores is foolish. One of the
Remember at the end of the day all the data is stored in a sequence of bytes in a spiral configuration on a metal(ish) platter.
really frustrating things about EJB CMP (before I ditched it in favor ofThat is an implementation issue and does not support your first claim. A vendor such as jboss could support better out of band queries, and we plan on for 4.0.
Hibernate, one of the best decisions I ever made) was how difficult CMP
made it to sidestep the abstraction and use aggregation queries, outer
joins, and other performance-enhancing techniques.
Now I totally agree here. I think the bigger issue is an ODBMS has completely different performance characteristics then an RDBMS, and you end up developing to these characteristics. For example, ODBMSes excels at in memory relational navigation, and RDBMSes suck at this. If you are using an RDBMS it is much better to jump to a location in the object graph using a query. The difference between performance of these systems can be reduced with good caching and read-ahead logic, but most do not code this.If you are writing code and thinking to yourself "hey, maybe I'll move my datastore to an ODBMS sometime in the future" then you're writing a toy, not a serious enterprise application. In the real world that doesn't happen. It's tough (organizationally and technically) just to switch database vendors.
-dain
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