And to tie back other parts of the conversation into this thread, Gus posted his thought as a Wiki page here <https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/Revamped+jenkins-ci.org+requirements> and it's quite a read.
My key take away is that we can drive participation more by encouraging people to sign up and create an account, which converts them from anonymous drive-by visitors into a "card carrying member of the Jenkins community", which makes a lot of sense. And I see a start of the content schema definition in there as well. 2015-10-02 7:31 GMT-07:00 Kohsuke Kawaguchi <[email protected]>: > For now, I think it's good to keep the discussion in ML because there are > enough people participating in 2.0 conversations in real time. We can then > summarize our consensus into tickets. > > So I'm going to respond you here. > > In INFRA-373 <https://issues.jenkins-ci.org/browse/INFRA-373>, you wrote: > > Depending on what the scope of the website is (e.g. is it just replacing >> what is in Drupal, or replacing Drupal + all of Confluence, or Drupal + >> some of Confluence) I think, if the goal is to lower the bar, things like >> the Arquillian example in my opinion wouldn't meet that goal and, in fact, >> possibly raise the bar. >> > > So the scope does stop short of replacing Wiki. I just want the new tech > infra to be able to eventually replace Confluence. > > >> As far as I can tell, and please tell me if I'm wrong, to do a change to >> a page you would need fork the Git repo, find the file that matches the >> content you are wanting to change, change the file, then create a PR for >> the change. If you wanted to actually make sure it looked like the correct >> sort of change you'd need to install Ruby and associated GEMs to be able to >> check your change? This would also imply that people would have to have a >> GitHub account presumably. >> > > If this is the flow it is indeed harder than Confluence, but I think we > can do a lot better. The flow that I think we can do is: > > 1. User clicks an "Edit" button on the page > 2. S/he lands on GitHub editor page > 3. S/he edits Markdown (or asciidoc or some such) and uses the preview > button to see the change > 4. S/he clicks the only big green button > <https://help.github.com/articles/creating-a-pull-request/> on the > page and that creates PR. > > > >> Right now in the Confluence style approach, you would just hit Edit, use >> the WYSIWYG editor to make the change, and then hit Save. Access is via a >> multi-purpose LDAP account. >> To me the latter seems a lower bar than the former? > > > I'd like to think that the above flow is comparable. And for people like > us who edit stuff a lot, static site is much easier to deal with --- no > captcha, much faster editing, staging changes beforehand, reviewing change > with others, etc. > > > 2015-09-30 0:03 GMT-07:00 Richard Bywater <[email protected]>: > >> Wasn't sure exactly where discussion on the individual issues should go >> so I stuck a comment in the website issue. If it was better to stick it on >> the mailing list or wiki then please let me know. >> >> Cheers >> Richard >> >> On Wed, 30 Sep 2015 3:40 pm R. Tyler Croy <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> (replies inline) >>> >>> On Tue, 29 Sep 2015, Kohsuke Kawaguchi wrote: >>> >>> > I'm pulling out the website change part of the Jenkins 2.0 proposal >>> from the >>> > mega thread >>> > <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/jenkinsci-dev/vbXK7JJekFw> >>> here to >>> > go a bit deeper on it. >>> >>> Reiterating the link that KK included at the bottom of his email: >>> >>> <https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/Website> >>> >>> It's a bit bare, but I'll fill in more over the next week or two :) >>> >>> From my perspective, as one of the early folks who spent far more time >>> than is >>> appropriate dealing with jenkins-ci.org, I'm most interested in getting >>> more >>> plugin developers contributing website/blog content. >>> >>> I think Twitter and jenkins-ci.org are prime locations to communicate >>> the >>> problems that developers are solving and how they're solving them to the >>> broader Jenkins user community. >>> >>> While I think the wiki is a great, easy to edit, place for the "current >>> plugin >>> doc" but content to introduce "here's this common problem JS developers >>> have, >>> and here are some good plugins to solve it" is something not well done >>> right >>> now. And it's something that I think the plugin devs are in a good >>> position to >>> provide. *Histoically* this hasn't happened, I believe, because >>> contributing to >>> the site is an opaque and not-well-understood proposition. >>> >>> If this sounds compelling to you, please add what would help you >>> contribute >>> content to this page: >>> < >>> https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/Revamped+jenkins-ci.org+requirements >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> > I talked to Gus Reiber, who is the only web design guy that I know of >>> in >>> > this community, to walk me through how one goes about the website >>> project >>> > like this. Based on that, I started capturing high-level tasks in here >>> > <https://issues.jenkins-ci.org/browse/INFRA-370>. >>> > >>> > And I'm going to explain it here as well. >>> > >>> > First, one should think in terms of data we want to present in a >>> website >>> > organized in "information schema", which I mentally translated to Node >>> Type >>> > in our current Drupal. For example, a blog post is a schema, which >>> consists >>> > of title, author, date, content in markdown, tags, .... There's also a >>> > mailing list, which has subscribe/unsubscribe/archive links and the >>> name. >>> > >>> > So one of the important efforts is to build that schema (INFRA-374), >>> and >>> > eventually the actual contents that follow the schema. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Then there's a separate tech effort. In the original proposal, I've >>> written >>> > that we should move away from Drupal and into a static site generator. >>> This >>> > feeling was also shared by Tyler and Daniel (aka the infra team.) >>> > >>> > The goal here is to improve the community participation into the >>> content by >>> > lowering that bar, and also secondarily reduce the infra overhead. We >>> think >>> > the static site generator backed by a Git repo in the jenkinsci org >>> > achieves these goals. >>> > >>> > So there's a need for some preliminary work to prove out these goals, >>> as >>> > well as making sure tha it adequatel supports content/presentation >>> > separation. It could be perhaps as easy as dusting off Tyler's earlier >>> > Jekyll conversion effort, or maybe it could be forking off an existing >>> > website for another project and modifying it. So that's INFRA-373. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Then we need to find someone who can design the presentation layer. >>> Write >>> > HTML/JavaScript/CSS as templates for those static site generators (or a >>> > Drupal theme if we are going to continue with Drupal.) That's >>> INFRA-372. >>> > And ideally this person helps us through the above two tasks as well. I >>> > can't think of anyone in the community who has bandwidth to do so, so >>> > CloudBees is willing to fund this role. If anyone capable is willing, >>> > please let us know. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Then there's more isolated but just as important story of the domain >>> name. >>> > Nicolas said in the mega thread that we should approach the owner of >>> > jenkins.org. So I captured that as INFRA-371. I'm still proposing >>> > http://jenkins.cd/ which we have already acquired just in case, and I >>> > expect some heated discussions on this topic. After all, naming is one >>> of >>> > the only two hard problems in computer science. >>> > >>> > >>> > So that's how I'm seeing this project so far. Tyler suggested in IRC >>> that >>> > we should start building this out in Wiki pages and he created this >>> > <https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/Website>, whicch we need >>> to >>> > fill in. >>> > >>> > Any thoughts, feedbacks etc are welcome. >>> > >>> > -- >>> > Kohsuke Kawaguchi >>> > >>> > -- >>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Jenkins Developers" group. >>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> > To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/CAN4CQ4xirdymZTs9X5E0VKay8TUx1XLSRwGce5JBFsvhPXDV7Q%40mail.gmail.com >>> . >>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >>> - R. Tyler Croy >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------ >>> Code: <https://github.com/rtyler> >>> Chatter: <https://twitter.com/agentdero> >>> >>> % gpg --keyserver keys.gnupg.net --recv-key 3F51E16F >>> ------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Jenkins Developers" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/20150930023726.GG2353%40blackberry.coupleofllamas.com >>> . >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Jenkins Developers" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/CAMui944W6b%2BPc%2BDekJzBi7nkySeDBYCeswtnZqejBAoOgfVUaA%40mail.gmail.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/CAMui944W6b%2BPc%2BDekJzBi7nkySeDBYCeswtnZqejBAoOgfVUaA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > > > -- > Kohsuke Kawaguchi > -- Kohsuke Kawaguchi -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Jenkins Developers" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/CAN4CQ4xebPcP0%2BFMRdegwPLnfLdA9RHz-3c3bjAF%3Dcy8f68CPw%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
