On Tue, Jan 15, 2019 at 3:27 PM Ullrich Hafner <[email protected]> wrote:
> Thanks Kohsuke and Jenn for describing the plans for Blue Ocean. > > While I understand, that you all are moving away from long-lived road maps > I think it still would make sense if you would clarify your vision for Blue > Ocean and Jenkins (and the classic UI) in more detail. > I agree. I can share my own thoughts, but at the end of the day, I think it needs to come from people who "own" this. I'm not a part of the product/engineering teams who are defining this, and I agree with you that it's important for me that they share their perspectives here. Blue Ocean started three years ago with the vision to replace the whole UI, > i.e. jenkins/job/pipeline configuration *and* the visualization of the job > results. While I think we have a lot of exciting results for the former > part (and JCaC for the configuratuion), the latter part has only results > for less than 1% of the plugins. In "Jenkins: Shifting Gears“ Kohsuke also > mentioned that the next development version of Jenkins will have no UI at > all. This makes me somewhat uncertain about the future of the UI part in > Jenkins. Are there still plans to replace the visualization of the job > results of all plugins with Blue Ocean? Or wouldn’t it be easier to rework > the classic UI by letting plugins use the old-style jelly model with some > modern JS libraries like Bootstrap, JQuery, Datatables, ECharts, etc? Or > thinking one step further: should we forget the Jenkins job visualization > UI at all and plugin authors should create their own stand-alone UI (e.g. > using a simple Spring Boot application) and read all information from the > pluggable storage of a UI-less Jenkins using REST services? > I agree with your assessment that the "visualization of the job results" have the large gap today because it covers only a small part of the plugins. That led to my call to action in DW|JW keynote that the next leg of Blue Ocean's effort should focus on the extensibility. It's still just a call to action and not a "CloudBees' plan" because it didn't get to the point of a consensus of the organization. I want to clarify that when I said "no UI" in "Shifting Gears," what I meant is that the first milestone of cloud native Jenkins can be achieved a lot easier if we drop the UI from it, and that despite that draw back, that milestone would be still plenty useful for sizable people. But that's just first milestone. In a long run, I think UI is a crucial part of the value of Jenkins. It's what differentiated Jenkins from cron in the first place, and an important part of the continuous integration/delivery is to give visibility to more people, which to me necessarily includes consolidating information. To the best of my knowledge, nobody currently has a viable plan to "replace the visualization of the job results of all plugins with Blue Ocean." It's great that you are exploring more options, such as "modern JS libraries on top of classic UI" and "let plugins build their own stand-alone UI." I welcome more of those conversations. Riffing off that brainstorming, I think one key change in this space is that individualized feedback matters a lot more than it used to be. Back then, the amount of automation was small enough that showing everything to everyone was normal. Now, that had turned into fire hose, and I think CI/CD is expected to provide personalized, context sensitive signals to developers in places that they expect (PR, chat, etc.) I think we have some catch-up to do in that space. Just like analysis-core was a foundational subsystem that opened up the whole space in Jenkins, I think there's a room to create a similar foundational subsystem that opens up a whole personalized context sensitive communication with individual users. And to me, that's an important part of "UI." Am 11.01.2019 um 19:04 schrieb Ryan <[email protected]>: > > I'm a big fan of Blue Ocean as well. I'd love to see more investment from > CouldBees to pushing Blue Ocean to it's limits. Glad to hear CloudBees is > still thinking about it. > > On Wednesday, December 12, 2018 at 3:30:10 PM UTC-5, Craig Rodrigues wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> When BlueOcean was originally being developed, James Dumay, >> who was a Director, Product Management at Cloudbees >> was very active in leading Blue Ocean, and communicating status and >> milestones with the Jenkins community. >> >> Since James has left Cloudbees, what I have observed is: >> >> 1. No one at the manager/director level is visible on the >> https://gitter.im/jenkinsci/blueocean-plugin Gitter channel to >> communicate with users or get feedback >> 2. Many bugs filed against Blue Ocean in JIRA are unassigned >> 3. Cloudbees employees who log into >> https://gitter.im/jenkinsci/blueocean-plugin seem to be doing so as a >> best-effort/volunteer level. For example, on Nov. 16, Keith Zantow >> reported: >> >> >> *Keith Zantow @kzantow Nov 16 06:36 @rodrigc hard to say exactly what's >> in the road map at this moment, but certainly open to patches* >> >> Can someone in Cloudbees management comment on the company's commitment >> to Blue Ocean? >> >> I try to do what I can. I've submitted one bugfix: >> https://github.com/jenkinsci/blueocean-plugin/pull/1794 >> >> And submitted a few bug reports: >> https://bit.ly/2B8MmmQ >> >> Blue Ocean is very good, but needs some bugfixes and usability >> fixes to meet parity with the Jenkins Classic UI. >> Blue Ocean is some complicated "modern JavaScript", and I don't >> have enough time to dig into it to fix the problems myself. >> >> I am trying to push Blue Ocean and Pipeline very heavily at the companies >> I work for, and for the most part everyone I talk to really likes Blue >> Ocean, >> but the bugs/gaps are a problem for wider adoption/success in the projects >> I work on. >> >> Thanks for any feedback. >> >> -- >> Craig >> >> >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Jenkins Developers" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/f10ccbbe-41ff-483f-a54d-bdebf2908670%40googlegroups.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/f10ccbbe-41ff-483f-a54d-bdebf2908670%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Jenkins Developers" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/5D2BC7B4-E303-4F9D-B127-092A76AF70A5%40gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/5D2BC7B4-E303-4F9D-B127-092A76AF70A5%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- Kohsuke Kawaguchi -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Jenkins Developers" group. 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