Just a reminder, this is the last day that we will be accepting suggestions. If you have an opinion on terms, please comment.
On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 8:25 AM Ian W <[email protected]> wrote: > There is heightened sensitivity to the naming of things, the meaning > behind them and the meaning read into them. I applaud the Jenkins community > work to address these matters. I first encountered the master / slave > terminology when I first tried to configure an IDE drive on a IBM PC clone. > Then the context was "Master Controller" and "Slave Controller". Perhaps my > youthful naiveté did not associate the full qualified terms with racial > imagery to which the lone words are ascribed. When I first saw the plain > "Master / Slave" usage in Jenkins, I definitely made that negative > association. If there exists more neutral terminology, I am all for it. > > > > The same goes for BlackList / WhiteList. Absolutely support the AllowList > / DenyList pairing in its place. > > > > The transition to node/agent works well, and it is the executors that do > the work. > > So, what for "the master" ? Some disliked Orchestrator, Controller, Host, > Server, all for legitimate reasons. > > > > I see "the master" as having two contexts. There is the Administrative > context (configuration, plugins etc.), that determine focus, capability, > delegation. Then there's the context of those tasks that are necessary to > execute "on the master". > > > > An elegant parallel for the first would be "Executive". That's our Org's > (or Jenkins') " Leadership" capability. That's how it works in my Org, with > an Executive (at HQ), multiple satellite offices (Nodes/Agents) and then > the workers (executors). > > > > What about the tasks run on master? It's still executors doing the work, > but its sounds like the job for a "Concierge" to coordinate and satisfy the > needs of the clients and delegate as necessary. Our Org has a "Concierge" > that functions similar to a Concierge at a hotel that most people would be > familiar with, but in an office setting > > > > My recommendation: refer to the "Host/Server" context as the "Executive", > replace the "master" usage context with "Concierge". > > > The terms and roles are well defined, should translate reasonably well or > are understood as-is, have neutral connotations and are not used in other > tools in the CI space that I am aware of. > > > > Ian > > > On Thursday, 25 June 2020 15:36:05 UTC-7, Jeff Thompson wrote: >> >> "maestro" is problematic in our context because it's too similar to the >> word we're trying to replace. Because of our usage history, that's a bigger >> issue than it might be in other contexts. In English, though they may have >> nuanced common usages, they're both basically the same word. They just got >> to modern English via different paths. They both derive from the same Latin >> root. We would be better to select something noticeably different. >> >> We should definitely keep i18n in mind in choosing a name. >> >> Jeff >> On 6/24/20 4:49 PM, Thomas de Grenier de Latour wrote: >> >> As a native French speaker too, I fear that "conductor" would be >> difficult to translate in French. With its "musical director" meaning, it >> would be "chef d'orchestre", which is so explicit that it leaves little >> room for a figurative sense (and it's also really long). The word >> "conducteur" exists in French, but not with this meaning (it's either an >> electrical wire, or a car driver; none of which being a good analogy for >> the work Jenkins does). >> >> To stay in the same lexical field, I would rather go with "maestro" (a >> skilled / well-known conductor), because this word would be understood >> as-is at least by Italian (obviously), English, French, and Spanish >> speakers (maybe German speakers too, maybe others). Plus, for people used >> to the historical Jenkins terminology, it gives an etymological hint that >> it is indeed the new word for "master", and not a new/different concept. >> >> Now, that being said, you can't go wrong with "controller" I think, so it >> would have my preference too. I don't think the potential confusion with >> k8s controllers is an issue (when writing about Jenkins deployment on K8S, >> use "K8S controller" / "Jenkins controller" to avoid any ambiguity). The >> word is so widely used in IT that we can assume most languages already have >> a well established translation for it. In French, it's "contrôleur" (fun >> fact: the most common meaning for "contrôleur", outside of the IT field, is >> "bus/train conductor"). >> >> Anyway, I guess my point here is that picking the new terminology should >> be done with i18n in mind. Maybe double-check with active i18n contributors >> for the most spoken languages that they have no issue with the candidate >> words, or something like that. >> >> Thomas. >> >> Le 15/06/2020 à 17:03, Angélique Jard a écrit : >> >> My preference goes to "controller", "server" make me think somehow to the >> hardware physical machine. "Coordinator" is fine also (in the link >> tools.ietf in previous post) but a bit hard to pronounce. >> >> As a non english native speaker (but french), I have some issue with >> "valet" and "majordomo" which have fix gender in french and are all male. I >> know that it's not like that in english but I think it's better to tell it >> now. >> >> As a music player I also like "conductor" (as musical director) this is >> how I see my Jenkins instance when I use it, that orchestrate agents, >> Jenkinsfile could be the music sheet :) .... >> On Monday, June 15, 2020 at 4:00:27 PM UTC+2 Antonio Muñiz wrote: >> >> In spanish the term "Master" ("Maestro"), when used in isolation (no >> "slave" in the context), has no negative connotations. Its main use >> is to describe someone very skilled in some matter (often used for >> artisans). >> I might be suffering of language bias, just wanted to give some "non >> english native speaker" perspective to the conversation. >> >> El lun., 15 jun. 2020 a las 7:56, Justin Harringa >> (<[email protected]>) escribió: >> >> Personally I thank the community for having already starting >> down this path. >> >> I tend to like leader or controller from >> >> https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-knodel-terminology-00.html#rfc.section.1.1.1 >> but I could also see server working. The difficulty I would see >> with primary/active is that folks who run Jenkins would have a >> bit of a conflict of terminology there. >> >> Take care all. >> >> -- You received this message because you are subscribed >> to the >> Google Groups "Jenkins Developers" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >> it, send an email to [email protected]. >> >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/3411fed5-7e21-454a-b285-f719f07c1b3ao%40googlegroups.com >> . >> >> >> >> -- * Antonio Manuel Muñiz >> * amunizmartin.com <http://amunizmartin.com> >> <http://amunizmartin.com> >> * [email protected] >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Jenkins Developers" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/56742697-234e-4d29-b613-fcc13d072ed7n%40googlegroups.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/56742697-234e-4d29-b613-fcc13d072ed7n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/56742697-234e-4d29-b613-fcc13d072ed7n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. >> >> >> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Jenkins Developers" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/8a178366-de57-4375-aa48-7e706ca8ca87o%40googlegroups.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/8a178366-de57-4375-aa48-7e706ca8ca87o%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- Website: http://earl-of-code.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Jenkins Developers" group. 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