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Rapha�l Luta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> burtonator wrote:
>
> >
> >>>Reptile does this... and does a lot more.
> >>>
> >>Show me. Where's the live demo ?
> >>
> > Right now I haven't focused on building a client-server demo. Reptile can
> > certainly support this but it is not our focus. Right now Reptile is basically
> > a P2P application which you run locally.
> > You can either look at the screenshots or download the build and run
> > "reptile-startup.sh"
>
> OK, so Reptile does not answer the same need that Jetspeed but try to create
> a new usage paradigm using P2P.
Reptile can be used like Jetspeed if one wanted to do so. It is just something
that we are not specifically putting time into.
<snip>
> > And... why? There is nothing different with this approach when compared to
> > Velocity, JSP, etc.
> >
>
> Granted for JSP. The whole point of Turbine/Velocity is to properly separate
> what should be the realm of the developer and what should be the realm of the
> designer (using MVC pattern). The same can be said of Cocoon which specifically
> tries to enforce separation of content between teams of different skills.
>
> If you don't see why it's different from your approach, then I think you'll
> soon find out in a couple of months when you'll try to incorporate new ideas
> in Reptile or if you ever try to explain and train people to use your Product.
Reptile does follow a MVC pattern. It uses multiple stylesheets to provide
this. One acts as as am model the other a view an yet another a controller.
We are almost 100% on par with the Cocoon viewpoint of MVC vs the Velocity
viewpoint.
<snip>
> Yes, I disagree that choice is good by nature. There are some cases where it's
> sensible to provide choice and some where it just leads to unnecessary
> complications and does not provide real benefits.
Balance is what is most important. Too much choice and you have a situation
resembling chaos. Too little choice and a system is to rigid to support
innovation.
<snip>
> OK. Just 2 things:
> - the basic approach is the same than PSML or Cocoon aggregation
not the same but similar.
> - you have hard-coded your layout policy choice (left/right/layer) in
> your customizer choice. If you want to add a new column, you must rewrite
> a customizer;
No... just provide an additional one.
> if you want to allow the user to edit the layer colors, yet
> another rewrite;
No... another stylesheet.
> if you want to edit a WML layout, yet another rewrite...
No. I believe that WML and HTML are incompatible. We would just say
"hey... see you are using WAP. Since this is the first time you are using the
system, here are your subscriptions. Please organize them best for you WAP
device."
<snip>
> Except that doing this is Java can also abstract you from the persistence
> mechanism and can provide you with caching capabilities, transactional
> security, etc...
We get that in Reptile. Remember that Reptile still uses Java :)
<snip>
> Yeah, I've discussed this extensively at last ApacheCon Europe with Ingo's team
> and XO3 people, and I think this is a very appealing solution; however proper
> implementation of this is quite involved if you want your system to support
> arbitrary source DTD and your data source to be rendered in arbitrary output
> format.
It is already somewhat done in Reptile. Basically it keeps track of the content
type of the input source, say RSS. We then have a mapping system where you can
say "ok, I have RSS and I need XHTML" and it gives it to you. Of you can
request WML, etc.
<snip>
> Not as such, I need separation of concern in order to break responsabilities
> between different members of a team.
Which is one of the cool things of our design. Since everything is essentially
MVC, If I want to implement some crazy procedure, say db persistence, I just
put it into the model level stylesheets. If you want to tweak some HTML just
add it within the view level stylesheets.
<snip>
> Agreed there, but to make an analogy, I still find strange that people start
> writing crappy lite HTTP servers when they could just embed the well-tested,
> efficient and supported Apache httpd and customize to their need...
I have certainly held this view in the past and I think it is a valid one. The
Open Source Development Model doesn't work when people aren't cooperating. My
current failure to use Cocoon is not because I don't want to cooperate and is
only out of technical concern.
We will see how it works out... I fully evaluated this when I first stated
Reptile but decided to remain pragmatic.
> >>In both case, I have strong doubts on the evolution of Reptile as a project,
> >>especially given your track record in Jetspeed.
> >>
> > hm... my track record huh? Jetspeed wouldn't even exist without my "track
> > record".
>
> It also would have died.
It would only have died if I didn't have the foresight to Open Source it. Don't
you see this as a proof of concept that Open Source works! :)
> > Regardless of your doubts, I believe that Reptile is the future. I can
> > implement *whole* subsystems in hours that would take weeks with another
> > architecture.
>
> Good luck with your project then, I'm definitely looking forward to your
> first release.
Thanks...
I believe that there these philosophy issues are very valid. We don't have to
agree on everything but we can at least cooperate.
I am trying to keep all the work under OpenPrivacy *very* moduler. The Panther
proxy component could be used within Jetspeed with relative ease (dual license
BSD/GPL). I believe it is somewhat cleaner than the disk cache I wrote within
Jetspeed.
There is also a project named HTParser which parses out HTML for titles and
descriptions. The problem is that a lot of RSS channels don't include
<description> elements and their content is significantly less usefull. With
this mechanism we can try to guess what the content is.
The cool thing is that it can start off scrict by finding out the description
from the HTTP meta convent "description" but if this doesn't exist (or is too
short) we can failover to using the body of the HTML.
... right now it just use META tags and works on about 60%. The remaining 40%
is where most of the work will come from but it should be possible with very
rare false alarms.
Take care.
Kevin
- --
Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] )
Cell: 408-910-6145 URL: http://relativity.yi.org ICQ: 73488596
Hiroshima 1945, Czernobyl 1986, Windows 2000
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