At 18:38 01/31/01, Thomas F. Boehme wrote:
>Ingo,
>
>I think "business logic" and "Java bean" can be used kind of synomously. So,
Sure, JavaBeans _can_ contain business logic. What I meant by "helper
object" is a simple data container, e.g. a JavaBean that has no business
methods - a DataBean so to say. ;-)
ingo.
>no contradiction here... I agree though, that the - despite the beauty of
>WebMacro/Velocity - JSPs should still be an alternative path.
>
>Cheers,
>Thomas B.
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "ingo schuster" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "JetSpeed" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 13:42
>Subject: Re: [long] Layout system, part 2: functional description
>
>
>At 13:30 01/30/01, Raphaël Luta wrote:
> >ingo schuster wrote:
> > >
> > > At 07:48 01/30/01, David Sean Taylor wrote:
> > > >After several reads, it is taking me some time to understand this, but
> > I get
> > > >the overall concept, but Im a little fuzzy in the details.
> > > >
> > > >I've also been looking at the new Turbine Pull Service.
> > > >You can find it in the cvs head at org.apache.turbine.services.pull
> > > >Also see: http://java.apache.org/turbine/pullmodel.html
> > > >It appears a little thin, but I like the concept very much.
> > > >
> > > >The pull model, in my interpretation, is a way to bring an object model
> > > >directly into template pages.
> > > >This will allow designers to access, or pull, objects and their
>attributes
> > > >directly in a template page, whether it be Velocity, WebMacro, JSP,...
> > >
> > > What I'm worrying about is that the work of web designers get mixed up
>with
> > > those of progammers: A web designer shouldn't really have to care about
> > > programming and everything that the toolbox provides needs to be hidden
> > > behind a *very* simple interface (like JspTags). It has to be made sure
> > > that no business logic find it's way into the templates. All business
>logic
> > > should be executed by actions that put their results in the template
> > > context, the templates should only care about reading and rendering
>these
> > > results and about the "page flow". I.e. there should be only a very
>spartan
> > > "API" with e.g. methods to lookup/generate/rewrite appropriate links,
>but
> > > it shouldn't provide "a way back" into the portal (e.g. no methods to
> > > access the user object or other "mighty" objects).
> > >
> >
> >That's because you don't use a proper template engine ;P
> >The syntax of Velocity/Webmacro is very simple on purpose to prevent
> >designers from using complex constructs and embedding logic into their
> >pages. They mainly let the designer access "business" objects which
> >encapsulate/mask all the business logic.
> >The "pull" methodology adds the advantage over the push methodology
> >that the "business logic" programmer does not need to know in which
> >page the objects will be used (this may change each time a site is
> >redesigned even if then logic is unchanged). As such, it provides
> >a better separation of contexts between the page designer work and
> >the business logic programmer.
>
>Well, if Webmacro/Velocity doesn't allow dirty things - ok, that's good.
>I'm just looking from the Jsp perspective and at least for Jsp templating,
>we should try to hold the toolbox as simple as possible. For example: I
>don't think a template should have the ability to access _business
>objects_, not even for querying them. Instead the business logic (the
>actions) should provide the processing results trough a "helper object" (a
>JavaBean). _Utility_ code (like a link builder) should of course be
>accessible for the templates.
>
>ingo.
>
> >--
> >Raphaël Luta - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Vivendi Universal Networks - Services Manager / Paris
> >
> >
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