Hi Bob,
I get it, you are biased towards JSmol as I am biased towards the ChemDoodle
Web Components. Certainly you are an authority on Jmol, but when it comes to
the ChemDoodle Web Components and to WebGL your knowledge is lacking at best.
I'm not interested in starting a flame war here, I only responded to correct
the biased statement about our product.
Jmol provides a tried and tested scripting language that many here are used to
using. This is a good thing. But it is not the only way. The ChemDoodle Web
Components use Javascript. You are always stating that you need to be a
programming wizard to use even basic Javascript tools. I would be surprised if
your users didn't find that a bit insulting. Everyone here is very smart and
probably already knows how to use Javascript. With our tutorial the majority of
the ChemDoodle Web Components API can be mastered within a few hours, allowing
users significant control over the software and a very sophisticated and
flexible ability to mold their HTML5 interfaces.
I am glad our developments in the HTML5 space over the last 4 years have
inspired you to create JSmol. The open source community benefits from having
access to many options. As I said before, regardless of our opinions, the
community wins here, which is the real goal behind open source solutions. I am
happy to contribute!
Sincerely,
Kevin Theisen
President, iChemLabs
On Jan 13, 2013, at 8:12 PM, Robert Hanson wrote:
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 4:59 PM, Kevin Theisen <ke...@ichemlabs.com> wrote:
> Thanks for the analysis Bob, I need to add in my thoughts.
>
> First, as far as open source goes, I don't really believe there is any sense
> of some "competition". Open source provides tools to the community, each is
> unique and will be used in unique ways by the community. Some will even use
> multiple solutions to craft the type of product they are trying to create.
> Open source solutions are all great. In the open source world, if a tool is
> not necessary, people will not use it and it will not be developed further.
> But an open source developer that believes he/she is in some sort of
> competition with another open source solution has already lost.
>
>
> I hope I didn't make that sound competitive. I was remarking about the tools
> that are out there that I know of. I'm very happy to see ChemDoodle continue
> to develop, and if what we have done helps in that, that's terrific. I'm just
> saying that right now it has such a long way to go to get to Jmol's level of
> sophistication, operability, and flexibility, whereas JSmol is there right
> now.
>
>
> And this is the only pointed question I have for you Bob, how do you see the
> J(S)mol code being sustainable as time goes on? There will be users that want
> offline desktop support, <canvas> support and WebGL support. Each time you
> develop a feature, you have to re-implement it twice more or very soon users
> will get confused as to which version to use. What is your advice on this?
>
> Well, actually, that's the beauty of it, Kevin. JSmol is Jmol. The codebase
> is the same, so new features are new features, that's all. It is highly
> sustainable. Not sure what you mean by "reimplementing". I push one button,
> and it becomes the Jmol Java application and the Jmol applet; I push another,
> and it becomes JavaScript. It's not as if I am developing these
> independently. I have not been developing JSmol as a new product; I have been
> adapting Jmol to be able to be compiled directly into either Java or
> JavaScript, that's all.
>
> The WebGL support is minimal simply because I have been reluctant to produce
> something that is only an approximation of the "real thing" so far. In
> contrast, the HTML5 version is an exact pixel-for-pixel reproduction of Jmol
> in JavaScript. It's the same code. I think the WebGL aspects will develop, if
> there is really interest in that, but I don't see it as a high priority right
> now. There is still just too little of a base for WebGL. For example, I just
> got a new Windows 8 computer, and both Chrome and MSIE refuse to view
> http://web.chemdoodle.com/demos/molgrabber-3d . Since iPads also don't have
> WebGL enabled, that's just not a workable solution. Maybe Apple will enable
> full HTML5 functionality, but I'm not interested in waiting for that.
>
> I'm not sure about your comment in relation to Jmol needing a server. What is
> that all about?Are you saying ChemDoodle is pulling files successfully off a
> hard drive without a server in MSIE and Chrome? Desktop Jmol is in the form
> of the Jmol application. Java is not disappearing from computers -- the issue
> isn't Java per se, it's Java as a plug-in to a browser.
>
> Kevin, a few questions for you:
>
> What is the platform base for ChemDoodle 3D now? I still can't find much that
> will run it.
>
> Is http://web.chemdoodle.com/demos/molgrabber-3d still a working page? (I
> can't get that to work, personally.)
>
> Do you have plans to support MSIE?
>
> Can you please point us to the page you had that lists web sites using
> ChemDoodle? I'm very interested in seeing what people are doing iw
>
> Bob
>
>
>
> --
> Robert M. Hanson
> Larson-Anderson Professor of Chemistry
> Chair, Chemistry Department
> St. Olaf College
> Northfield, MN
> http://www.stolaf.edu/people/hansonr
>
>
> If nature does not answer first what we want,
> it is better to take what answer we get.
>
> -- Josiah Willard Gibbs, Lecture XXX, Monday, February 5, 1900
>
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