Kakki, sorry, wrong. The Catholic Church has never ben staunchly anti-war,
never. From the year 325 in which the motto of Emperor Constantine said,
"With this cross we will conquer" the Roman Church has been anything but
anti-war. Augustine began developing the "just war" theory which came to its
fruition under Thomas Aquinas. That theory above all has informed the Roman
Catholic Church, which undertook Crusades, not prayer and charity, as its
attempt to convert the Middle East. Then history of the Middle Ages, the Papal
states, the armies of the Holy Roman Empire, the 30 Years war, the 100 years
war, the military conquest of the New World to bring Christianity to the native
Americans... Kakki, this is not opinion, this is plain historical fact. I
mean, the armies of the Holy Roman Empire were there to express the military
objectives of the Vatican. The Roman Catholic has from Constantine, with the
Just War theory as official teaching, been involved in, and blessed war. I say
this as fact, not in judgment.
It takes until Dorothy Day and Mother Theresa to begin to advocate an anti-war
view. Pax Christi has become a major player in the American peace community,
but this is a relatively new organization - although with wonderful resources
which I commend. John Paul II has been the first pope to take what may be said
to be a stand against war, prepared for by Paul VI, for which I admire them,
but John Paul has not removed the Just War theory as official teaching.
Kakki, there is simply no way to say that the Roman Catholic Church is
"staunchly anti-war." That is simply totally untrue. I am saying that purely
on a Church historical basis. I am not saying the Catholic Church is pro-war,
but the the Just War theory is a doctrine of the Church, it is a dogmatic
teaching, and the history of the Catholic Church makes that very clear.
This is not the line of argument that you want to pursue for the massive weight
of church teachings and history lay against you. Again, I say this not be
combative. I am simply saying as I gently as I can to advance your positions,
which I encourage for the freedom of our discussions and the growth of all of
us in learning from each other, that in this area, your experience of peace in
the Catholic Church was your personal experience but is not Catholic teaching,
dogma, doctrine, canonical, practice, or experience going back to the year 325
at least with Constantine and replete through Pius XII.
as lovingly as I can say this, I did, Kakki, but this is an area of not opinion
(which my next post will be) but fact. And I want to say it with respect to
you gently before someone jumps on you for it. I am trying to be your
friend...
(the Rev) Vince
Kakki wrote:
> Vince,
>
> A lot of people, including the Catholics themselves, consider Catholics to
> be generally pacifists. But that may be a misnomer and I see what you mean
> if you compare them to the Amish, Quakers, etc. Perhaps the better words
> would have been to say that Catholic church tends to be staunchly anti-war
> and takes the stance that prayer and charity is the answer.
>
> Kakki
>
> > Staunch pacifism would include the Mennonites, Amish, and the Seventh day
> Adventists. The Adventists have suffered terribly in this country for their
> pacifism. The history of this nation's treatment of pacifists in the Civil
> > war through WW! period is shameful and improved by degrees since then.
