Yael Harlap wrote: > > But I also have talked to Marcel about *my* having been upset about my > email communication with him, and my opinion, what I've concluded, is that > he did not perceive his behavior as abusive, nor did he really understand > why I did. And why others do. I think he fell into an unhealthy pattern of > interaction - which had the effect of making a bunch of people hate him, > and then of course I think he probably felt he was being hated simply for > expressing dissenting opinions. Which of course was not the situation.
That is not at all the situation and it shocks me that people (not you obviously) think it is. All Marcel had to do was stop sending private emails to people who did not want to receive them. He was never told that he could not post whatever he wanted to on the list. He was not asked to change his opinions or personality or anything else, JUST STOP SENDING PRIVATE EMAILS!!! Very very very very simple request!!! Anyone with any decency would respect such a request even if they didn't understand it. As it describes on the website Kate posted (http://www.verbalabuse.com/) abusers often are not aware of their behavior and when the effects of it are pointed out to them are still unwilling to be responsible for it. Along with the other characteristics of abusers, that describes Marcel's behavior perfectly. Even now he's not willing to take any responsibility for his actions. He apparently is spending all his time thinking I'm the bad guy. His behavior has probably caused him difficulty in every area of his life and yet so far the signs are he's not willing to look at himself for even a second. That is the saddest part to me of all of this. So rehabilitation? There's no indication that that's possible in this case. Please keep in mind that Marcel was asked MANY times to stop sending private email, MANY MANY times, by many people, over a long period of time. Les's decision had to be an excruciating one to make. That people are now second-guessing that adds to the misery of this whole situation. And, believe it or not, I don't hate Marcel, although I certainly don't want any personal contact with him. I'm sad, too, about how it all turned out. That's why it went on for years. I and probably everyone else who was being affected always had the hope that the simple request made of him is something he would respect. For whatever reason, he wasn't willing to do that. That is why he is now off the list, no matter what he's telling you or anyone else, or believing himself. > On the other hand I do feel conflicted about the notion that a list member > would feel uncomfortable and want to leave the list were Marcel to come > back, the way a battered woman wouldn't want her abuser back in her house, > even if he were to say "hey hon, I've been rehabilitated! can I come back > now?" It's not ONE list member. The idea that this is taken to be a battle between me and Marcel, with Colin sometimes involved, is a huge mistake. MANY people have been affected. I've expected that at some point Marcel would be returning, somehow. I imagine it would take about a month before getting an insulting private response to something I'd said on list. The solution for avoiding that is never to post anything, and at times that has been my solution, but then I'm not giving anything to the list and that doesn't feel quite right, and it angers me that my opinion-giving would be controlled in that way. Certainly, saying ANYTHING political could draw fire, privately. The people who are supporting Marcel the most are either relatively new so don't feel the burden of having dealt with this for a very long time, or don't post very often to the list, and rarely or never post anything about politics and, if they do, quickly back down in their opinions. That's perhaps a wise choice in this situation. For me, though, that's not an open discussion, and I thought that's what this list is all about. And after that one private message I'd be gone for all time, with lots of prayers for all the targets that are staying behind. If this grueling time hasn't shown people what's going on, I don't know what would. But I guess the question is, is the list equivalent to the house or > to the larger community? Are we family all, or are we a neighborhood? I > leave that open... I don't know what this is either. I only know I'm not willing to silently take such attacks anymore and don't think anyone else should do that either. For the record, the only people I've ever received nastiness from are Marcel and recently Brian, so two out of 800... not a bad ratio. I'm trying very hard to positively keep the 798 people in mind and forget about the other two. Doing that, though, doesn't make what those two have done ok, especially not if such hateful behavior is allowed to spread. Debra Shea
