Mack, Your message about Colin has been bothering me ever since I read it yesterday, and I've been trying to figure out since then how to respond. I'd like to completely ignore it because, quite frankly, it's much easier to discuss issues "out there" such as the middle east or the supreme court than it is to address a message such as yours, but it doesn't seem right to let something so ugly and hurtful sit there without comment. The communication flaws in your message have also shown up in other exchanges over the years and the result is always confusion and bitterness and alienation, so I want to look at this and give my view, for whatever it may be worth. I'm no expert on communication skills, but I am willing to look and try to sort things out, and learn.
My first thought is that I'm glad you wrote on list since what set you off was written on list. At least then you leave yourself open to many different responses, which takes some courage, and I think that's much better than sending such a message privately. When that's done it seems that disputes never get cleared up because the viewpoints can become too narrow and unbudging without any outside input. That being said, it's completely destructive that rather than respond to Colin's comment about your statement, you launch into this wide-ranging attack. That's not fair fighting, to bring in all sorts of things like that. There's no way a person can defend himself against such an attack because no one knows exactly what you're talking about. Such a tactic is meant to confuse the issue so much that you hope no one (including yourself apparently) notices you're not taking any responsibility for what you wrote. Other people have pointed out to you how your statement that you consider Arabs to be evil came across, and asked for some clarification, and you didn't attack them (or give an adequate explanation) so your reaction to Colin's comment is very bizarre. Colin did *not* say you are a racist. His comment was about your one statement. On a discussion list people make comments, yes? Your statement was there for all of us to see. Why you made the leap to thinking Colin was describing your entire character is a mystery to me. And then why you claim that he is name-calling is also a mystery to me. He did not say "Mack, you are a racist" (*that* would be name-calling). How would he even know if you're a racist? He doesn't know you personally and so far there have not been enough consistent statements from you about anything to enable anyone to draw such a definite conclusion about your character. I think that's the case with everyone here. The distinction between disagreeing with a person's statement and describing a person's entire character sometimes gets lost on this list, and then all of a sudden the person who can't see that distinction is accusing someone else of name calling. Once that starts, insults and sarcasm and exaggerations and then claiming to be supported by some silent group of people (in this case scared lurkers) usually follow. You did that here, Mack. It's all there in your message. Colin did not do that and never has. So, which person in this exchange is making the personal attack? (As an aside: It really bugs me when lurkers or any other group who can't be asked about it are used by someone to advance his or her agenda. There are many reasons for people not posting and using them as ammunition is manipulative and not very impressive.) It's obvious you don't like the way Colin comes across or maybe it's the subject matter he brings up that you don't like reading about. Only you can know that. You and everyone has the right to tell him or anyone else your reactions to specific statements. (That's such an "of course" statement it seems silly to even type it out.) You don't have to stay quiet if a particular statement from anyone really bothers you. There wouldn't be a very interesting discussion here if everyone agreed all the time. But sticking with the specifics is really important I think. Talking in big general insults as you did just gums up the communication works, and then things are almost impossible to sort out because no one, including the person you're angry at, knows exactly what you're talking about, and bad feelings result with no chance of resolution. That's poison. Simply put, I think it's important to speak up at the time you're bothered, keep it specific, or forget about it if you're not willing to do that. And when you spill over and write something inappropriate, and I know from personal experience how that can happen given certain circumstances, straighten it out as soon as you can. Debra Shea Dolphie Bush wrote: > > I have one word for you Colin: therapy. Unlike many here, I am not afraid > of you and your brutish tactics don't scare me. It is amazing that someone > who constantly posts about the abuse they have endured has no problem > abusing others. I have seen you dissect multiple posts over the time I > have been here, twist words and meanings to suit you as to somehow make > yourself sound knowledgeable and wise, name call at random, and post > incessantly as to what you think is right and wrong. Your obvious rancor > with Laurent boils down to one thing; he disagrees with you. Yes, being > called racist pisses me off, to use your eloquent words, as does the fact > that you think you have the right to tell others here what to think and to > post. The difference between you and me is that I do not hide behind a self > made persona of sweetness and light and do not claim to be perfect, in any > way. The fact is that political posts were made and then you made it > personal with your name calling, and then have to audacity to infer that > Mack should not be angry about it. In the future I will remember to try to > apply illogic (to understand them) to your posts before I dissect them and > post why you should not have said what you did. The many lurkers who hide > from you may continue to do so but I will not. > > mack > > the racist texan > > I am fed up with this business already as you know you misconstrued what I > said but don't have the class to admit it. The JMDL is not your personal > playground I know you think the JMDL is Colin's land and that you can say > and do whatever you wish I usually just sit back and allow you to do it but > in the future you can bet that the sam > > mack > and though I do hold > > the Israelis responsible for not doing all they can do to help find peace, > > I agree with you that most of the fault lies with the Arabs. You are right, > > they don't want peace. They simply want Israel exterminated. Don't fear > > that all believe what they read or heard for I have no illusions as to > > the motives of the Arabs. I consider them evil and as politically incorrect > > as that might be, it is the conclusion that I have come to and I make no > > apologies for it. I find comparing Sharon to a Nazi war criminal absurd > > and wonder just how pacifist we would be if our borders and lives were faced > > with the constant onslaught, such as that Israel is bombarded with daily. > > I would surmise that the U.S., Britain, and most other countries would have > > already brought out the heavy fireworks. I give Israel a great amount of > > credit for the restraint that they do show. > > > > mack
