Ruth, Hi. your post in Digest 199 has this quote at the end of itI don't think he meant being members of a list like ours or orgs like the Red Cross.(although interstingly some Joni fans do appear to separate themselves from non Joni fans and appear to set themselves 'above' by their insistance that anyone who dislikes her work either doesn't 'get' her or is too thick to undertsand her. THAT is a form of violence).
"When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European, or anything else, you are being violent. Do you see why it is violent? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind. When you separate yourself by belief, by nationality, by tradition, it breeds violence. So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or partial system; he is concerned with the total understanding of mankind.
- --J. Krishnamurti, Freedom from the Known, pp.51-52 "
This is an interesting quote..but ....... what about women who seek to understand violence? The universal club of parenthood? being a JMDL member as opposed to or in addition to a JOan BAez-er or a James TAylor-er (he does mention "anything else")
YOu make valid and interesting points throughout your post (but who am I to judge.. I thought so anyway).... I feel, however that Krishnamurti makes a general sweeping assumption that people necessarily consciously define them selves by the religion they follow and/or the nationality they are. He appears, however to dissallow for the unity of the human kind for the common good, the unity of groups like the Red Cross, Medcins sans Frontieres..the large national and international charities who deny no-one in need their succour and assistance. All these people who work in such capacities have passionate belief in doing good in areas where wrong has been done.... They identify with that cause of neutral good.... not zealous conversion to "their side" but necessary, non-political, non-judgemental good....
People do define themselves by their relgion/nation/colour/race /gender/etc and it is divisive,i think.
A wonderful book about this is FRIENDS AND ENEMIES by Dorothy Rowe(Dr), published only last year I think. ( THE REAL MEANING OF MONEY is another good one.) Now she really does explain why the personal is politcal and why we cannot be anything but subjective not matter our protestations of objectivity.She also explains our need for enemies, and how we can overcome that need. She explains why we many of us define ourselves by nation, religion etc.
One of the saving graces of my own childhood, never being in one place for more than 18mths or so, is that I have no feeling of patriotism, national pride, statehood etc(it also makes me feel rootless-nowhere is 'home'-but kmaybe that isa good thing)
bw
colin
