Hi Wally, May we call this a brave post? I think so.
i really don't know how to compose this post without getting into trouble with a lot of list members but i'll try. And a good try it is...nevertheless: Its also socially suicidal because the topic is so emotionally charged that it is rarely discussed sans hysteria of one sort or another. Hence the great American Sexual Dysfuction continues unabated, in no small measure exactly because these sorts of issues are boobytrapped in such a way that even showing interest in the questions raises suspicions that the asker has purient intertest as a motive. I rebuke all those sorts of intellectual dishonesty and would answer your questions (which are good and proper) in this manner: [All hail the Pendant!] my main question is whether it is possible that kids of say 12 or 13 could be ready and willing to have sex with older men and that in these situations intimacy may not constitute sexual abuse or child molesting. Yes it is possible. (I would lose the gender aspect though since the question really speaks to age differential and in any case applies to both sexes.) Context is everything. These things are culturally determined and are fluid across the centuries. And of course because we are relatively so short-lived we tend to adopt, or at least be shaped by, the mores of our time period and have a difficult time not thinking of them as "writ by the stars themselves". The fluidty is not apparent to us. It takes the greatest effort to liberate oneself from those things that are the most culturally given. In my estimation, even though it is quite possible for an 11 year old to have healthy inimate relations (sexual or not) with an 80 year old, our present culture is not capable (or even interested in becoming capable) in supporting or condoning such a relationship. We don't have the emotional or political language to construct a social contract to guarentee that such an arrangement would protect the child from the advantages of superior knowledge, experience and physicality possessed by the adult. In that these things are not infrequently used by adults to children's detriment even in situations not immediately in our focus, lends credence to societies position of erroring on the side of caution and opting for a blanket ban on such behavior. It is too utopian I think to assume otherwise. The biggest problem I have with how society reacts to discovering such relationships is that it is at least as socially destucutive all around as the questionable behavior itself. Making it purely a justice matter is a haphazard application of the wrong type of bandage and hence the penalties are more a product of the hysterical dimension than any rational aim at harm reduction. [All Hail the Pendant's Egress!] I had an earlier coming out as it were and I can assure you that the relationships I had with older boys and men were no more harmful than those I have had as an adult. Talk to Joni about it...man to man to man to man...strung out on another man... and they wonder why we faggots are so Mitchell prone. Because she speaks our language, silly. Congrats on a great post. be well, cul Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 05:05:38 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: nambla njc i really don't know how to compose this post without getting into trouble with a lot of list members but i'll try. i have always been very interested in nambla. i am not familiar with it or its guiding principles. i know that the ilga didn't accept nambla as a member organization for a long time (i don't know whether this situation has changed) and that its existence has caused a lot of controversy in the gay political arena. my main question is whether it is possible that kids of say 12 or 13 could be ready and willing to have sex with older men and that in these situations intimacy may not constitute sexual abuse or child molesting. in my experience, i was very much in love with an older man and ready for intimacy when i was 11. if i had had sex with him, would that invariably have hurt my psyche or development? what are the bases on which the age of consent is determined? i assure you all that these questions are made honestly and respectfully. wally
