Hi Torsten,

Thanks for your quick response.

Verifier authentication and authorization is the task of the wallet (on
> behalf of the holder). How authentication/authorization is performed
> depends on the protocol for credential presentation. In case of OpenID 4
> Verifiable Presentations (which is OAuth based), the verifier is identified
> via its client id and authenticated using one of the various OAuth
> mechanisms.
>

I just want to understand correctly what you are talking about, so could
you please answer me more specifically by using a specific use case
(QR-code)?

In the use case where a Holder discloses some claims as a SD-JWT to a
Verifier via QR code, is there any way to prevent or mitigate disclosure by
mistake if the Verifier is malicious? I'd like to know a specific way for
the wallet (on behalf of the Holder) to confirm the validity of the
Verifier before showing the QR code.
... or is the QR-code use case out of scope?

As I mentioned in the previous post, I believe that in the selective
disclosure transaction on the Issuer-Holder-Verifier model, only a Holder
can be offline, while an Issuer and a Verifier must be online (the Verifier
must be able to access the Issuer), is this understanding correct? If it is
not correct, again, I'd like to know a specific way by which the Holder
confirms the validity of the Verifier before the disclosure, without the
communication between the Verifier and the Issuer.

Excellent question! I’m not a lawyer (and this a legal question). What I
> assume is
> a) either the wallet provider acts on behalf of the issuer under a data
> processing agreement or
> b) the wallet provider becomes another data controller after the user
> consented with the transfer of the credential to the wallet.
>

This question is not from a lawyer's perspective but from the perspective
of an engineer/operator who has to manage personal data though.
I have a lot to say in response to this answer of yours, but I would
appreciate it if you could answer the above questions first.

Best regards,
Daisuke

2022年10月8日(土) 18:24 Torsten Lodderstedt <[email protected]>:

> Hi,
>
> > Am 08.10.2022 um 08:26 schrieb AJITOMI Daisuke <[email protected]>:
> >
> > 
> > Hi folks,
> >
> > I could be making a big mistake but I don't really understand the need
> for JWP or SD-JWT.
> >
> > Let me ask two questions about the Issuer-Holder-Verifier model that JWP
> and SD-JWT are premised on.
> >
> > 1. How does a Holder confirm the validity of a Verifier before the
> selective disclosure?
> >
> > In the typical use case where a Holder selectively discloses some claims
> to a Verifier using a QR code or NFC, is there any way to prevent or
> mitigate disclosure by mistake if the Verifier is malicious or infected
> with malware? It is impossible for a user to visually determine whether the
> QR code reader device (or app) is malicious or not.
> >
> > In order to confirm the validity of the Verifier (as in the general
> OAuth flow), I suppose that the Verifier must be authenticated by the
> Issuer each time before the Holder's claims are disclosed. At least, it
> looks to me that SD-JWT is a dangerous solution because it discloses
> linkable personal data without any Verifier validation.
>
> It is important to notice that in the verifier/holder/issuer (aka
> Verifiable Credentials model aka decentralized identity model) the issuer
> needs to rely on the wallet (provider) to handle the credential/claims
> disclosure properly. The issuer should therefore validate the wallet and
> its security and privacy mechanisms before issuing a credential.
>
> Verifier authentication and authorization is the task of the wallet (on
> behalf of the holder). How authentication/authorization is performed
> depends on the protocol for credential presentation. In case of OpenID 4
> Verifiable Presentations (which is OAuth based), the verifier is identified
> via its client id and authenticated using one of the various OAuth
> mechanisms.
>
> >
> > 2. How does an Issuer fulfill its responsibility as a personal data
> controller?
>
> Excellent question! I’m not a lawyer (and this a legal question). What I
> assume is
> a) either the wallet provider acts on behalf of the issuer under a data
> processing agreement or
> b) the wallet provider becomes another data controller after the user
> consented with the transfer of the credential to the wallet.
>
> best regards,
> Torsten.
>
> >
> > My understanding is that the Issuer is responsible for the Holders'
> personal data management because the Issuer is providing selective
> disclosure of the personal data as a service. This means that the Issuer
> can be regarded, for example, as a 'controller' as defined in GDPR. At this
> time, the Issuer has various responsibilities regarding the protection of
> the personal data. The following is a partial list:
> > - Record and maintain logs of the data disclosures to third parties (the
> Verifiers) for a certain period of time.
> > - Notify a supervisory authority of the scope of impact and
> countermeasures in the event of an incident, such as a personal data breach.
> > - Demonstrate that the Holder has consented to the disclosure of his or
> her personal data.
> > - etc.
> >
> > In this Issuer-Holder-Verifier model where an Issuer is not necessarily
> involved in the disclosure transaction between a Holder and a Verifier, how
> does the Issuer fulfill the above responsibilities? I suppose that in order
> to preserve the audit log containing the Holder's consent in a manner that
> even the Holder cannot repudiate, the Issuer would have to be involved in
> the disclosure transaction each time, similar to question 1.
> >
> > I have seen some people say that it is a kind of privacy invasion for an
> Issuer to be able to track every disclosure transaction by a Holder, but I
> think that is false. The Issuer is recording the transaction data for
> compliance with a legal obligation as a personal data controller, and any
> deviation from this should be prohibited by law. I think that preventing
> data breach to malicious or compromised Verifier is much more privacy
> protective.
> >
> > Anyway, my point is that in light of the obvious security measures that
> an Issuer should take (Question 1) and the general personal data protection
> legislation (Question 2), in the selective disclosure transaction, only a
> Holder can be offline, while an Issuer and a Verifier have to be online.
> >
> > If this assumption is correct, then neither JWP nor SD-JWT is necessary,
> and the solution to be adopted may vary greatly.
> >
> > For example, a solution where (1) a Holder generates and passes to a
> Verifier an short-lived token indicating the user's consent to the
> selective disclosure protected by end-to-end encryption between the Issuer
> and the Holder, and (2) the Issuer provides endpoints for the selective
> disclosure that requires the short-lived token and Verifier authentication
> is simpler and more secure than JWP or SD-JWT. It is also more compliant
> with a general personal data protection regulation. Furthermore, in the
> end-to-end encryption, the Holder generally uses an ephemeral public key so
> the unlinkability of the disclosed claims is also achieved naturally.
> >
> > I would appreciate your feedback on the above.
> >
> > Sorry for the long post.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Ajitomi, Daisuke
> > _______________________________________________
> > jose mailing list
> > [email protected]
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/jose
>
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