On Tue, 17 Sept 2024 at 19:04, Mike Ounsworth <Mike.Ounsworth=
[email protected]> wrote:

> +1 to Niel’s question.
>
>
>
> > " the general consensus in CFRG seems to be towards hybrid KEMs (eg some 
> > combo of X25519/P-256 + ML-KEM), so is there a need for a “naked” ML-KEM 
> > option?”
>
>
>
> JWEs / CWEs certainly can be used to carry data with long confidentiality
> lifetimes (PII, financial data, etc), but can also be used for extremely
> short-lived data like auth tokens. But of those use-cases that I’ve run
> into in $dayjob where data sensitivity is extremely short-lived, the
> overwhelming majority are JWS (RS256 / HS256), followed by AES-only tokens
> (ie the server encrypts an auth token for itself). So I would be interested
> to hear from operators who:
>
> A) use JWE asymmetric key exchange with short-lived data.
>

I see several use cases that use JWE with asymmetric keys for short-lived
data, for example, see
https://auth0.com/docs/secure/tokens/access-tokens/json-web-encryption

-Tiru


>
> B) can’t tolerate the extra like 64 bytes for the X25519 / P256.
>
>
>
> Those are the use cases that would make an argument for a naked ML-KEM
> option. Do any exist?
>
>
>
> ---
>
> *Mike* Ounsworth
>
>
>
> *From:* Neil Madden <[email protected]>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 17, 2024 4:38 AM
> *To:* Karen ODonoghue <[email protected]>
> *Cc:* JOSE WG <[email protected]>
> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] [jose] Re: Call for adoption:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-reddy-cose-jose-pqc-kem/
>
>
>
> I’ll try and give this a proper read through today, but a couple of
> initial questions: - the general consensus in CFRG seems to be towards
> hybrid KEMs (eg some combo of X25519/P-256 + ML-KEM), so is there a need
> for a “naked” ML-KEM option?
>
> I’ll try and give this a proper read through today, but a couple of initial 
> questions:
>
>
>
> - the general consensus in CFRG seems to be towards hybrid KEMs (eg some 
> combo of X25519/P-256 + ML-KEM), so is there a need for a “naked” ML-KEM 
> option?
>
>
>
> - more broadly, unless we’re actually going to merge the COSE and JOSE WGs, 
> it seems procedurally awkward to have drafts in the JOSE WG that dictate COSE 
> algorithms. Is it really that hard to have two drafts?
>
>
>
> — Neil
>
>
>
> > On 14 Sep 2024, at 21:50, Karen ODonoghue <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > JOSE and COSE working group members,
>
> >
>
> > The following draft has been submitted for consideration by the JOSE
>
> > working group. The chairs agreed, at IETF 120, to issue a call for
>
> > adoption.
>
> >
>
> > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-reddy-cose-jose-pqc-kem/__;!!FJ-Y8qCqXTj2!cTqypVN0cPPcG9K-tOrwMuqDaPnjPspDsEq7itGEXZc0WSIaRgbBvPFWiPB3UjFdCSFhAKdhlfQFyoOND2mBaC75kWoE$
> >  
> > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-reddy-cose-jose-pqc-kem/__;!!FJ-Y8qCqXTj2!cTqypVN0cPPcG9K-tOrwMuqDaPnjPspDsEq7itGEXZc0WSIaRgbBvPFWiPB3UjFdCSFhAKdhlfQFyoOND2mBaC75kWoE$>
>
> >
>
> > Please review the document and indicate (by responding to this email
>
> > and keeping the subject line intact) whether or not you think this is
>
> > a good place to start the development of this document. Please provide
>
> > comments.
>
> >
>
> > This call for adoption will close on Monday 30 September.
>
> >
>
> > Thank you,
>
> > Karen
>
> >
>
> > _______________________________________________
>
> > jose mailing list -- [email protected]
>
> > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]
>
>
>
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