> > 1) Developers who don't love JS and think that if they write code that > compiles to JS in their language of choice, they will be better off and more > productive. (GWT, ScriptSharp, etc...)
> 2) Developers who think that the syntax of the language as it exists now is > a little clunky. Most of these developers write a DSL in JavaScript to > output JavaScript. (CoffeeScript). 3) Developers who believe Javascript is a great language, but not the best choice for building complex web applications. I'm mostly referring to Objective-J and Cappuccino here. Obviously there are disadvantages to compiling your own language into pure Javascript. A big advantage however is that we can add Javascript features which the browsers don't support yet. For example, Cappuccino has the @each branch, which implements @for-in. Another big advantage of the Cappuccino frameworks (AppKit and Foundation) is that they're based on 20 year old proven technology (the Apple Cocoa frameworks) for building desktop applications. A lot of the pure javascript frameworks feel clunky (to me) and require immense knowledge about the DOM, CSS, javascript itself and the differences between browser implementations. Cappuccino and Objective-J abstract the DOM and CSS away from the developer into easier to understand metaphors. I've also been wanting to point out the similarities between Javascript now and C somewhat 20 years ago. There are more and more extensions (C++) and new implementations (Objective-C) of new languages on top of Javascript. Keep in mind though that Cappuccino (and similar technologies) are meant for web applications. As Francisco and Ross (two of the founders of 280North, the company behind Cappuccino) explain in the comments<http://www.alertdebugging.com/2009/11/04/mockingbird-cappuccino-and-what-really-matters/#comments>of this post; Cappuccino is not the best solution for building websites like nytimes.com, facebook.com or google.com. - Klaas Pieter On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 7:04 PM, Nick Fitzgerald <[email protected]> wrote: > The other option that people keep talking about is a standardized byte code > that any compiler could target for the browser. Brendan talked about the > difficulties of this in one of his quickie podcasts: > http://www.aminutewithbrendan.com/pages/20101122 > > Just a nitpick: CoffeeScript is clearly not psuedo-code, as it has a > grammar and can be compiled to JS that runs perfectly. That's like saying > Python is psuedo-code! Really, this is a compliment to its syntax (and it > has been said that Python is executable psuedo-code, as a compliment). > Sorry, I couldn't help myself! </nitpick> > > _Nick_ > > > > > On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 9:42 AM, Scott Koon <[email protected]> wrote: > >> IMO there are two factions of developers that use frameworks that compile >> other languages into JS. >> >> 1) Developers who don't love JS and think that if they write code that >> compiles to JS in their language of choice, they will be better off and more >> productive. (GWT, ScriptSharp, etc...) >> >> 2) Developers who think that the syntax of the language as it exists now >> is a little clunky. Most of these developers write a DSL in JavaScript to >> output JavaScript. (CoffeeScript). >> >> I think that the face of the language will change and evolve in some ways >> to satisfy group number 2, but I'm not sure if JS will ever been good enough >> for the developers in group number 1. They often have legitimate reasons for >> wanting to write in their language of choice (e.g. all unit tests are >> written in the same language and run at the same time on their build >> server). I'd argue against them being more productive. Both groups at some >> point have to wonder "Is there a bug in the compiler?" when they encounter a >> bug in their JS. >> >> >> On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 8:12 AM, Hay (Husky) <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> I guess it depends on the integration with the backend. If you have >>> lots of Java programmers that would like to keep control of everything >>> in one language you could use something like GWT or Vaadin. However, >>> you could also take that argument the other way around and write >>> everything in Javascript, including on the backend (using something >>> like Node). >>> >>> if the question is mostly about maintainability on the frontend i >>> would look more into solutions like RequireJS that allow you to make >>> your code more modular. >>> >>> -- Hay >>> >>> On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 3:43 PM, Fran <[email protected]> wrote: >>> > I'm lately looking into frameworks like GWT or Cappuccino, or recently >>> > Coffee-script, although this one is more a peuse-code that compiles >>> into >>> > javascript than a framework, but still it seems to follow similar >>> > philosophy. They seem to keep getting stronger among the js developer >>> > community. My question is, could this be the future of Javascript, >>> being >>> > compiled into from another language or some peudocode ?, I understand >>> it >>> > makes better maintainable code among other advantages but, are we not >>> losing >>> > control over our js applications ?. >>> > >>> > Don't get me wrong, I actually feel quite curious about these >>> > frameworks/pseudo-code and see lots of advantages, but I'd like to know >>> what >>> > other developers think about it and if they are using them in big >>> projects. >>> > >>> > I'll soon start working on a big project from scratch, where Google Map >>> is >>> > involved, and I'm taken them into consideration, playing around, but >>> still >>> > not quite convinced. >>> > >>> > Any suggestion, advise or thought ? >>> > >>> > Thanks in advance >>> > >>> > Fran >>> > >>> > -- >>> > To view archived discussions from the original JSMentors Mailman list: >>> > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>> > >>> > To search via a non-Google archive, visit here: >>> > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>> > >>> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> > [email protected]<jsmentors%[email protected]> >>> > >>> >>> -- >>> To view archived discussions from the original JSMentors Mailman list: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>> >>> To search via a non-Google archive, visit here: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>> >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> [email protected]<jsmentors%[email protected]> >>> >> >> -- >> To view archived discussions from the original JSMentors Mailman list: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >> >> To search via a non-Google archive, visit here: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]<jsmentors%[email protected]> >> > > -- > To view archived discussions from the original JSMentors Mailman list: > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ > > To search via a non-Google archive, visit here: > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]<jsmentors%[email protected]> > -- To view archived discussions from the original JSMentors Mailman list: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ To search via a non-Google archive, visit here: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]
