Quoting Kirkdorffer, Daniel ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
> I do not agree with many of your assertions.
Well you don't have to. We live in a diverse world, and yes to a
certain extent all of this is a matter of taste.
> The simple fact that one can and does embed scriptlet code with a JSP page
> for presentation purposes, does not mean that stuff is being lumped
> altogether.
And in C, you can just remember not to call a method because it is "private".
You can just know that. The extra restrictions imposed by the Java language,
preventing you from calling private methods, just gets in the way.
> Putting restrictions in what one can do with JSP smells like a
> terrific way to cripple JSP in favor of other approaches... such as
> webmacro.
I'm not proposing that JSP be changed. I think it would be too great a
change, and it would make JSP a lot less like ASP. The one really big
advantage that JSP has over other approaches is that there are lots and
lots of ASP programmers out there, who will likely feel more comfortable
with the JSP/ASP way of doing things.
Programmers coming from other backgrounds, such as me, may not see this
as an advantage. But certainly it is one, and it shouldn't be discounted
or ruined by making radical changes in JSP.
Also, its worth noting that WebMacro, FreeMarker, Dash, and JSP can all
live happily in the same servlet environment. You could use whichever
one you thought was appropriate for a particular task. Using one
definately does not preclude use of another--any values you put
into the Session context will be shared between them.
> It doesn't make the specification better, or JSP more useful and
> flexible.
Agreed. It would be a radical departure from the way JSP is implemented,
and would not be worth doing.
If I had thought it would make JSP better, I would probably have lobbied
for it in JSP, rather than implementing WebMacro.
> And BTW, you said it: webmacro is a product. JSP is a specification. Does
> Java Report even have a category for Best Java Specification? I'd win the
> award for my company's Best Java Developer if we had one, but that's equally
> irrelevant to the discussion.
WebMacro is free by the way. It's opensource/freesoftware under the GPL.
You get all the source code to do whatever you like. I don't make any
money on selling it. I thought I would at one point, but I've realized
I do a lot better just getting it out there.
The Java Report (current issue BTW, go to your news stand and check)
had categories for: Application Servers, Compilers/VMs, Database Middleware,
Database Tools, GUI Components, IDEs, Servlets Tools/Components/Frameworks,
Testing Tools, Third-Party Components, Utilities, and Web Authoring Tools.
While "JSP the standard" would not have been eligible in any of these,
presumably various implementations of JSP would have been. It's worth
nothing that ServletExec (New Atlanta) was another winner in the servlet
category--that's an implementation of the JSDK standard. Also, JFC
won in the GUI Components category.
Nobody says you have to agree with the Java Report. I'm personally
euphoric that WebMacro was recognized--I've put in a lot of unpaid
time working on it, and I feel somewhat rewarded by the selection.
Justin
- - -
WebMacro Servlet Framework
http://webmacro.org
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