My reponse is, JSP is an open architecture, based on a published *SPEC* with
many, many commerical and open source implementations. You can judge an
implementation by determining spec compliance and going from there
(performance, etc.).
Where is the ASP or ASP+ spec? I'm not talking about documentation on how to
use the stuff, but a spec that explains the design, the capabilities, and
how its supposed to work in the abstract. (Any body ever seen the BNF for
the VB language, or a spec on VB/ASP from MS???) How many platforms
does/will ASP+ run on (How many platforms does VB run on?)? Will you have to
use RAD tools to get the most out of it or can you use a text editor and
command line and get the same level of capabilities if you wish? Will the
runtime and design-time of ASP+ somehow be intertwined (in an unpublished
way) so that MS tools will have the advantage over 3rd party tools for first
2 or 3 releases (how many 3rd part VB RAD tools do you know of)? When will
the *SOURCE CODE* to ASP or ASP+ MS implemenation be available anytime soon?
What open process is in place so that I, as an ISV, can make recommendations
to ASP or ASP+?
JSP may be rather primitive, but every developer -- not ones with special
access because they've agreed to be MS partners, etc. -- can know how JSP is
supposed to work and not be dependent on a single implementation. That's why
everyone is using it. They have choices and options because its an OPEN
architecture.
There is a huge, huge, difference between Java and VB on the level of
openness and architectural concientiousness. (Question: if I wanted to use a
hash table in VB, does anyone know off hand what's available in MS VB? --
get real!!!) Please do not equate them. Furthermore, ASP or ASP+ will never
match up with JSP/Servlets because ASP and ASP+ inheriently closed and
proprietary -- no spec, source code, or cross platform implemenation has
ever been released for these MS technologies.
Forget the MS stuff... I have not seen or heard of one serious, commerical
web architecture in the last two years that has any MS product in the entire
architecture. No one wants to be limited by a closed architecture. Let's put
is this way, if your pissed with the bugs or performance of your NT based
ASP implementation, what alternatives to you have?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nasser Dassi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 8:06 PM
Subject: Re: ASP vs JSP
> Hi all,
> I beg to differ on a few points mentioned between ASP and JSP.
>
> The transition is dependent on which scripting language someone is more
> comfortable with (Java/JavaScript or Visual Basic)... that's a given. But
> as far as usability, it entirely depends on the configuration you would
like
> to go with. Although ASP is Microsoft-specific (although that is no
longer
> true with advent of 3rd Party software packages aimed at Unix-based
servers
> to adopt ASP & PerlScript), ASP+ and all the new bells and whistles that
> will become available along the MS platforms would quantitatively and
> qualitatively match up with the JSP potentials (as far as what is being
> produced today, not next year).
>
> In the end, they are equal: ASP+ allows an entire OS to be your web
> application... JSP, too, brings a Unix or Java-based OS to become your web
> application, too. To either, snap on an XML-based database, and if your
> code is created with attention and possibility of expansion, then it, too,
> will become platform independent (as ASP applications can be ported... and
> JSP applications can be moved).
>
> Important to point out: Although security is 'serious' with Microsoft,
it
> must be noted that it is still proprietary... which means experts must
> decode the code......... for Open Source platforms and applications, the
> code is already decoded -- it just becomes a matter of placing a sign over
> the open doors, or making a door and recompiling the kernel.
>
> Ultimately, being an eCommerce VB/ASP developer for 7 years, and an
> eCommerce Java/JSP developer for over a year, I found my transition quite
> straightforward.
>
> Final Point: If your application is properly programmed (designed), it
> wouldn't matter whether it's created with ASP or JSP. Wait until ASP+ has
> been fully released before delving into it... if you cannot wait, begin
with
> the language you are more comfortable with (ASP or JSP).
>
> Yours Truly,
> Nasser
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Duffey, Kevin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 8:17 PM
> Subject: Re: ASP vs JSP
>
>
> > I would be to differ. JSP is much easier to use than ASP if you know
Java.
> > If your more a Windows/Visual Basic person than ASP will be easier. I
find
> > JSP much easier to work with and offers a lot more than ASP does in the
> way
> > of functionality. You get the full JDK available (if you want), as well
as
> > the power of using it on any platform (as you said) which can ultimately
> > give you much more powerful servers, thus increase performance,
> reliability,
> > and scalability. COM is inherently more complex to work with than
> JavaBeans
> > and EJB, although EJB isn't a piece of cake either. Even is ASP+ is
> compiled
> > into some format, its still tied to Windows, while your JSP code can
move
> > not only to any platform, but to any app server that implements J2EE on
> that
> > platform. So now you are free to choose the platform AND the software to
> run
> > your code with. Plus, I am quite sure Java/EJB is, or will soon have
much
> > more support for enterprise development than MTS/ASP/COM/DCOM. There is
a
> > reason Java is now the #1 sought after development language and a large
> > number of companies are flocking to J2EE. J2EE is made up of many big
> > companies (and many small ones), while MTS/ASP and all that jazz is
> strictly
> > MS. This is one place I think MS wont come close on. They have lost this
> war
> > of enterprise solutions in my opinion. There are still a lot of people
> that
> > are solid MS and anti-java, but there are a lot more realizing the
> potential
> > for java based solutions.
> ...
>
>
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> Some relevant FAQs on JSP/Servlets can be found at:
>
> http://java.sun.com/products/jsp/faq.html
> http://www.esperanto.org.nz/jsp/jspfaq.html
> http://www.jguru.com/jguru/faq/faqpage.jsp?name=JSP
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Some relevant FAQs on JSP/Servlets can be found at:
http://java.sun.com/products/jsp/faq.html
http://www.esperanto.org.nz/jsp/jspfaq.html
http://www.jguru.com/jguru/faq/faqpage.jsp?name=JSP
http://www.jguru.com/jguru/faq/faqpage.jsp?name=Servlets
