From: "Thomas Friese" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Subject: RE: DIE SCHERE #29 - Translation Date sent: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 10:01:13 -0800 Send reply to: [email protected]
> > I am at all not sure that "theorizing" is the right word - shamans and > other types of mystics have experience of both their coming and going into > the world. In fact, shamans die and return to life at will, according to > their reports. I think we misunderstand the real, experiential side of > Junger's wisdom. This is a man who learns equally from doing as from > reading and thinking. In fact, I think the mystical side of Junger is > wholly underestimated, or better, completely overlooked. It is > fundamental. Thats exactly my thought. Ej influenced me by this side, specially with the fight against nihil and fear (to dead). > > Since I am no different from anyone else, in that I think I have certain > presentiments of things, I have to go along with him. My experience has > almost always been that the vision or preview presents itself as something > trivial, a flash, a stray thought. Then when the thing happens it is > recalled as something significant, even monumental. But that means that > possibly there were a whole lot of other trivial, stray images that never > led to anything, were not recalled and vanished in oblivion. So was the > vision a preview, or a lucky hit? > Gary, these feelings are more common than people think, surely much of us have felt too. As example, French has an expression for them : deja vu . > The seeming significance of the vision may derive entirely from it having > been one among many that were entirely forgotten and therefore not > recognized in their moment of realization. A presentiment of a trivial > detail will seem monumental in its "happening" if only because the > experience powerfully impresses upon us the link between future and > present and our relative lack of free will, or, conversely, the force of > destiny. This metaphysical lesson is as powerful if it concerns the corpse > or the little fish swimming around it. As Junger implies, the verification > of the detail tells us that much more important things were also > pre-established without our choice. I must disagree here, Thomas. I think EJ is meaning another thing. To my mind his thought about past-future and visions is nearer to shu´ar - an Amazonas tribe- culture. This tribe has a veri different conception of time. They think future is in the past. The preview don´t imply an absence of free will. It means that our decision was already taken. Put different, shu´ar believe that what they dream - or what they see when taking ayahuasca - a potent pharmakos, must happened, so, if they dream something bad, they try to re-dream and change it. Sorry, but my knowledge about this is very different. If there is someone who knows this culture, please explain us. In the meanwhile, I will research more pertinent details. Best regards roberto
