Erik, Good to hear from you. No one has asked me to work on a RoR project yet.
I pretty much work on whatever the client wants (except for Struts; I won't do Struts). We are creating our own version of RoR called Presto. Presto is based on Spring, Hibernate, Facelets and JSF. It is similar to Trails. I just got a call this morning about a dotNet project using NHibernate and Spring.Net. Does anyone know if these frameworks are alive? I may do some NHibernate/Spring.Net work this year. Has anyone used these before? -----Original Message----- From: Erik Hatcher [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 3:29 AM To: jug-discussion@tucson-jug.org Subject: Re: [jug-discussion] App Dev Framework choices Yeah, but what about Ruby on Rails?! ;) My current projects (yes, more than one) consist of a RoR front-end and a Solr (http://incubator.apache.org/solr) as a major backend piece via XML over HTTP (lowercase "web services"). Erik On Jun 20, 2006, at 4:15 PM, Rick Hightower wrote: > Hmmmm.... > > I find Tapestry to be powerful and robust. > It seems to handle resources better than JSF. > It is also really easy to create Tapestry components (out of other > Tapestry > components no less). JSF component creation (true components not > composition > components ala Facelets) is lacking. > > Many things in Tapestry just work the way they should. Many things > in JSF > don't just work the way they should. For example, in Tapestry when > you get > an error with a field, that field is automatically highlighted, in > JSF you > have to do it yourself. There is not reason why h:form could not do > it for > you. It just doesn't. > > However.... > > Tapestry takes a lot more effort to grasp and it takes a lot more > effort to > learn. It is complicated. It did not get simpler in Tapestry 4. > > Injection via an abstract getter, anyone? Shudder? > > I think I have grasped it (but I enjoy complex stuff), but to use > it on a > large team... YIKES! There is going to be a lot of developer body > bags. > > JSF is far easier to learn and grasp. > > > Back to your original question: > > "When would you choose to use Tapestry over JSF/Facelets"? > > I don't get to pick. The pick is usually done before I get there and I > merely assist with the choice. I am thankful for this. Both have their > issues. > > However as I breathe, I have an opinion: > > I think JSF is far superior for internal apps where the look and > feel is not > extremely important. The main criterion is developer productivity. > > I think Tapestry is far superior for external apps where the look > and feel > is critical. The main criterion is look and feel. > > Also if you are going to create a lot of custom components, > Tapestry is a > better choice as well. > > Facelets closes the gap (quite a bit) between Tapestry and JSF, but > Tapestry > is still a better platform for building components. > > On the other hand, there are more OTS components available for JSF. > > The docs for Tapestry are lacking. The amount of information about > Tapestry > pails in comparison to JSF.... > > I feel I am qualified to make the above statements having used > both. I have > not bias towards either. I can make money doing either. I enjoy > working with > both. > > "Rick helped us to get our arms around Tapestry, Hibernate, and > Spring. We > are implementing all new J2EE applications in these technologies. Rick > showed us how to pull all of these things together." Wayne > > Having taught both JSF and Tapestry workshops, I can tell you this. > Developers get JSF quickly. Developers stumble with Tapestry. It > takes twice > as long to do the equiv CRUD lab in Tapestry versus the other. (It > takes > another two times as long to do it in classic Struts so...). > > Granted Tapestry is very powerful however that power begets > complexity. > Tapestry 5 should focus on developer productivity. > > Well you asked..... > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Thomas Hicks [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 12:29 PM > To: jug-discussion@tucson-jug.org > Subject: Re: [jug-discussion] App Dev Framework choices > > Hopefully not. > > I didn't ask "which app framework is better"? > > I asked a specific question of Rick (and others) from his experience > "When would you choose to use Tapestry over JSF/Facelets"? > > I was hoping for a summary based on his experiences with various > frameworks. > cheers, > -tom > > > > At 12:16 PM 6/20/2006, you wrote: >> you may have just started the next religious war >> >> On Jun 20, 2006, at 11:30 AM, Thomas Hicks wrote: >> >>> Hey Rick, >>> >>> You raise an issue I've been looking at lately: the pros & cons >>> of various web app dev frameworks. I was motivated by my lack >>> of knowledge about what's out there and inspired by Matt Raible's >>> comparison presentation (http://www.virtuas.com/articles/ >>> webframework-sweetspots.html). >>> >>> In the snippet below you mention JSF/Facelets and Tapestry. >>> When do you choose to use Tapestry over JSF/Facelets (or vice >>> versa)? >>> >>> (Anyone else with experience in the frameworks area, please chime >>> in). >>> regards, >>> -tom >>> >>> >>> At 11:00 AM 6/20/2006, Rick wrote: >>>> ..... >>>> Nick, >>>> >>>> I was up your way working on a Tapestry project (a few weeks ago). >>>> >>>> I've been doing some Tapestry work on the side while doing >>>> JSF/Facelets/Spring/Hibernate(iBatis too) for my regular gig. I >>>> also updated >>>> our Tapestry course to Tapestry 4.0. >>>> >>>> TTYL >>>> >>>> --Rick >>> >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> - >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
