--- Erik Hatcher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Jun 24, 2006, at 5:15 PM, josh zeidner wrote:
> >    After having worked with countless web
> frameworks
> > and dozens of languages I will say this:  What you
> > gain in development effort and 'syntactic sugar'
> you
> > lose in performance.
> But Ruby is not just a sugar coating of syntax.

  I know, its a brave new world of app development...
maybe im just getting older but this stuff is really
beginning to lose its luster for me.  Why is it that
people absolutely refuse to accept the fact that there
are no silver bullet solutions?  I guess in a sales
situation it is very hard to make a sale when youre
competing against some bozo who is promising the world
for penny.  Always going for the quick buck.  BTW- I
hear the real estate market in Tucson is getting
trippy.  And so it goes...

> >   As all these sites prop up I
> > just give it a year or two before people start
> > marketing themselves as experts in 'optimizing'
> RoR,
> > so they can sell the solutions to the performance
> > problems that the 'peace and contentment' caused.
> Perhaps.  There will certainly be the need for
> skilled folks in the  
> RoR space in terms of deployment.  You asked what
> sites I've  
> deployed.  At this point I don't have anything
> visible in production, 

  Why is it that every Ruby expert that I run into has
absolutely nothing to show?

> primarily because I'm in a small academic group that
> has little  
> sysadmin skills and servers to push what I've
> developed out.  We do  
> have a previous version online using RoR interacting
> with Kowari and  
> a custom XML-RPC Lucene search server.  We'll be
> putting the new and  
> improved version with Solr replacing both the other
> two pieces  
> shortly.   Once that is up, I'll be announcing it. 
> I run the system  
> locally in development mode and it's doing quite
> well with no RoR  
> caching, but we will certainly be enabling the
> caching facilities  
> that RoR slickly offers as we need it.
> > Very similar with EJB and CMP. EJB offered a
> > simplistic layer of abstaction  that made data
> > management simpler
> Uh, you must have used a different EJB than I did.

  Well i started with EJB before Sun even used the
term j2EE.  I think it was probably '98.  Back then
EJB was being sold as a nifty 'three tiered solution'
to your web site woes( Websphere, at the time was not
even an EJB server ).  And it was simple.  At first. 
It didnt have block enumerations though and I think
that it will be block enumerations that will save RoR
from the same fate of every other app framework in
existence. :)

  So EJB got bigger and fatter, and alternatives
Sprung up, etc... but here is my word of advice to

   here is a movie where a NASA employee compares Ruby
EJB, and a few other technologies:


> I don't have any  
> happy experiences with EJB in practice or even in
> theory.  But then  
> again, I'm not even fond of relational databases in
> practice no  
> matter how they are accessed... but ActiveRecord has
> made me smile a  
> lot lately.
> >   Having witnessed the Web 2.0 sleaziness first
> hand,
> > I do not trust anything that is associated with
> that
> > world.  If you want to deliver something really
> good
> > to your client, give them standards that are
> > unencumbered by licenscing constraints( where it
> is
> > affordable of course ).
> I'm not following what you mean here... how does the
> "Web 2.0" world  
> relate to licensing constraints?

  Well im not going to go that much into it, but Web
2.0 turns out to be a service mark owned by CMP Media


> >    I still do respect Java as a language because
> the
> > semantics are well established
> I'm quite happy with Java as well, and I do more
> coding in it than in  
> Ruby still.
>       Erik
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