On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 6:51 PM Mark Shuttleworth <m...@ubuntu.com> wrote:
> On 24/02/17 11:30, Andrew Wilkins wrote: > > On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 6:15 PM Adam Collard <adam.coll...@canonical.com> > wrote: > > On Fri, 24 Feb 2017 at 10:07 Adam Israel <adam.isr...@canonical.com> > wrote: > > Thanks for calling this out, Simon! We should be shouting this from the > rooftops and celebrating in the streets. > > > Only if you also wave a big WARNING banner! > > I can definitely see value in pre-installing a bunch of things in your LXD > images as a way of speeding up the development/testing cycle, but doing so > might give you false confidence in your charm. It will become much easier > to forget to list a package that you need installing, or to ensure that > you have the correct access (PPA credentials, or proxy details etc.) and > having your charm gracefully handle when those are missing. > > Juju promises charms encoding operations that can work across multiple > cloud providers, bare metal and containers please keep that in mind :) > > > Indeed, and this is the reason why it wasn't called out. We probably > should document it for power-users/charmers, but in general I wouldn't go > encouraging its use. Optimising for LXD is great for repeat deploys, but it > wouldn't be great if that leads to less attention to quality on the rest of > the providers. > > Anyway, I'm glad it's helping make charmers' lives easier! > > > We should call this out loudly because it helps people making charms. > > Those people are plenty smart enough to debug a failure if they forget a > dependency which was preinstalled in their dev images. > I was thinking about deployment times more than anything else. If you don't feel your user's pain, you're less likely to make it go away. But anyway, that can be fixed with automation as well (CI, as you say below). > Don't HIDE something that helps developers for fear of those developers > making mistakes, TEACH them to put CI or other out-of-band tests in place > anyway that will catch that every time. > FWIW, it wasn't intentionally hidden to start with, it was just missed. I made the changes primarily to support an external user who wanted to demo CentOS charms on LXD; the change also enabled custom images in general, and also slightly improved container startup time. Three birds, one stone; only one bird-hitting was reported ;) Cheers, Andrew
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