I should have saved this fun for a Friday afternoon. I'd only would have had to wait a single day. :]
I'll respond to the comments in the order received. David wrote: "SS, intend for my message to be interpreted quite so strongly, only wanted to remind people about the licensing. Best of luck in your endeavour." No problem. I'm always glad when someone from Vivid Solutions takes the time to participate in the conversations about OpenJUMP. Stefan wrote: "On the other hand i understand Pedro and David, and i think some of the text in the blog may misslead in the understanding." I think there is general agreement that I could have done a better job of explaining things on the blog. I'll get another post up to clarify things and let the list know so they can look it over. Stefan wrote: "I personaly see it only a bit difficult to be project admin and "support company" owner in one person." This might be true. On the other hand I think it puts me in a position to offer better service to my customers and better contributions to the code base. If at some point the other developers think my little business is compromising my integrity I can hand over the keys to someone else. Besides, Stefan does most of the work anyways. :] Stefan wrote: "But, as for now I would like to see how the things develop, with respect to two things: a) does he find customers b) if he finds and does developments, how will be the return to OJ" I might not find any customers. :] But I don't mind taking this risk. The Wright Brothers might crashed a couple of airplanes before they made their maiden flight. I do the work on OpenJUMP as a volunteer anyways, and I don't have to worry about the overhead of a larger business. It seems like a good fit. I will be making good on my commitments to contribute the results of my code back to the community. That is my main complaint of others involved in the OpenJUMP community, and I'm not a hypocrite. I think it also makes good business sense. In fact, I hope to put some source code for the PostGIS plug-in and for a new DataStore framework on the SurveyOS Repository next week. Stefan wrote: "the only thing i see a bit critical is the quaterly release in two issues - every official release needs to be free for everybody if I remember gpl correctly (and the sourceforge rules)" I won't be releasing the source code on a quarterly basis, I'll be releasing an installer and documentation on a quarterly basis. The source code will be available to all developers all the time via the SurveyOS SVN Repository. I will be purchasing web hosting services independent of the SourceForge site to make the installer available. Stefan wrote: "if you think, that you can offer every quarter an improved version (whereby this is not my problem)" Yup. Quarterly releases might be to frequent. I'll have to just try it out. Maybe I'll go for biannual releases instead. I'll have to give this some more thought. Stefan wrote: "but you may for your quaterly OJ releases think about a new name (although the codebase remains the same), because up to now the release of one version was a general agreement between the main contributers." I'll call my "unofficial" releases OpenJUMP-HQ. I can coordinate the other releases with Stefan and the other developers. If they don't want to have official releases one or twice a year we can work something else out. Stefan wrote: "so finally I wish Sunburned good luck, and we will see how it goes and what is returned to the original OpenJUMP version." Thanks a lot Stefan. That means a lot coming from you. Stefan wrote: "actually what i like is Sunburned pricing policy on custom development :)" I'm not just a preacher of the benefits of open source, I'm a believer. If someone wants to suck of the work of the community they can pay double... Pedro wrote: "Please sign up at the appropriate page, which I profit the occasion to remind you of, http://openjump.org/wiki/show/Professional+Support, as a developer available for hire, like others did. I'm sure that interested parties will profit greatly from your accumulated expertise." It's done Pedro. http://openjump.org/wiki/show/Professional+Support The Sunburned Surveyor On 11/2/06, Pedro Doria Meunier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > " I realize that these are two different things, and I do intend to do > both." > > Excellent! Please sign up at the appropriate page, which I profit the > occasion to remind you of, > http://openjump.org/wiki/show/Professional+Support, as a developer available > for hire, like others did. I'm sure that interested parties will profit > greatly from your accumulated expertise. > > > <Paul Ramsey> > Your opinion came while writing this. > > I must be missing something here or I'm just too simple-minded but > GPL, clause 2, paragraph b) states: > " b) You must cause any work that you distribute or publish, that in whole > or in part contains or is derived from the Program or any part thereof, to > be licensed as a whole at no charge to all third parties under the terms of > this License." > > Thus no one can actually sell OJ in "little silvery envelopes". ;-) > > As previously said services and extended functionality is a completely > different thing... > </Paul Ramsey> > > > Pedro Doria Meunier > (351) 91 302 49 72 - (351) 96 247 99 12 > MSN - [EMAIL PROTECTED] > ICQ - 308-182-126 > Skype: pdoriam > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > Sunburned Surveyor > Sent: quinta-feira, 2 de Novembro de 2006 21:57 > To: List for discussion of JPP development and use. > Subject: Re: [JPP-Devel] [jump-users] RE: Commercial Support For OpenJUMP > > That was definitely not the response I was looking for. I was actually > hoping for some positive feedback. > > Let me clarify some things for Pedro, then I'll respond to David's comment. > > Pedro wrote: "One thing is having the developers being paid for their > work on some > extended functionality to some company. Another is service around the > product." > > I realize that these are two different things, and I do intend to do both. > > Pedro wrote: "Did you, per chance, become the owner of OJ????" > > I'd like to know which comments in my blog lead to you to believe I > was claiming ownership of OpenJUMP, which I am not. What "I" am going > to do is offer some technical support of OpenJUMP for a reasonable > fee. I believe my offering these services and the overall control of > the program are two totally different things. Many companies do the > same for "independent" open source projects. For example, I can hire a > company or consultant to support my Debian operating system or > PostgreSQL database. That doesn't mean that the company I hire has any > control over the development of the program, or that they "own" the > program. What it does mean is that they now have a vested financial > interest in the program and will be more likely to contribute bug > fixes and develop new features. > > Nothing I propose would stop another OpenJUMP developer, or company > like Vivid Solutions or Refractions research for that matter, from > also offering support for OpenJUMP. In fact, if the demand for > OpenJUMP support is great, which I doubt will be the case initially, I > would likely want to hire other OpenJUMP developers because they know > the code base the best. > > > Pedro wrote: "OJ IS ****OPEN-SOURCE****! read again in case you missed it: > OJ IS ****OPEN-SOURCE****!" > > You don't need to shout Pedro. I am very well aware that OpenJUMP is > released under an open source license. Please be polite, as I am > always polite with you. I deserve that much. > > David wrote: "This struck me in a similar manner ... so I did a little > reading of the > GPL, and I'm not sure SS's comments (as read this am on the blog site > mentioned) do not violate Clause #2 of the GPL." > > Could you point out the specific statements in clause 2 of the GPL > that you feel I would be in violation of? I read it over carefully, > and I can't see the conflict. I'd like to address those supposed > violations if they exist. As I mentioned in my blog posting, I'm > offering "services" for OpenJUMP, not the source code itself. As I > also stated in the blog, all of my changes and improvements to the > source code would be pushed down to the OpenJUMP CVS on a regular > basis, and would be available on the SurveyOS SVN in the meantime. > > David wrote: "Thanks for expressing what many of us are probably thinking." > > I must admit that this reaction caught me by surprise. If the OpenJUMP > community decides this is a bad idea, and presents me with some good > reasons why this shouldn't happen, I'm willing to listen and to > reconsider. It's not like I had my heart set on this. I actually > thought it would be a good idea. > > I would hope that everyone on this mailing list would know me as a > reasonable person. This isn't worth forking the code or some other > drastic action. If it means that much to the other developers, then I > won't do it. its just not worth fighting over to me. Forget the GPL, I > don't want to be in a position where other developers feel I've > violated th spirit of the community I'm helping to build. > > In conclusion I want to say that I'm disappointed in this reaction. I > realize that I make mistakes as one of OpenJUMP's project > administrators, and that I haven't always cared for the project like I > should have. > > I do think, however, that I have given generously of my time to this > project, and that I was one of the individuals that helped to get it > off the ground. I go out of my way to offer assistance on the mailing > lists, and to keep the peace between the different developers. > > I hope that I have earned more trust and respect from the members of > this mailing list and the OpenJUMP community than is evident in the > previous posts. I'm not out to cheat anybody, or to take from others > something that doesn't belong to me. > > If for some reason this idea doesn't pan out then I'll walk away from > it. No matter what happens I'll still be here working as a volunteer, > chiefly for the benefit of others, as I have always been. It's likely > that I'll be doing that after many reading this conversation today are > no longer subscribed to this mailing list. > > The Sunburned Surveyor > > On 11/2/06, David Zwiers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Pedro, > > > > This struck me in a similar manner ... so I did a little reading of the > > GPL, and I'm not sure SS's comments (as read this am on the blog site > > mentioned) do not violate Clause #2 of the GPL. > > > > Thanks for expressing what many of us are probably thinking. > > > > David > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pedro > > Doria Meunier > > Sent: November 2, 2006 12:19 PM > > To: 'List for discussion of JPP development and use.'; 'JUMP Users > > Discussion' > > Subject: [jump-users] RE: [JPP-Devel] Commercial Support For OpenJUMP > > > > Commercial OJ ???? > > > > One thing is having the developers being paid for their work on some > > extended functionality to some company. > > Another is service around the product. > > > > But a *totally* different thing is, quoting the blog: > > > > "What type of "commercial support" will ****I**** offer?" > > > > I?!?!?! > > Did you, per chance, become the owner of OJ???? > > > > "When will ****I**** be offering commercial support for OpenJUMP?" > > Ditto. > > > > What kind of mockery is this??? > > > > If I remember it correctly explicit information on the site about > > developers > > being available for development (and being paid for it) is present at > > http://openjump.org/wiki/show/Professional+Support > > > > Developers interested in offering their paid services have but to sign > > their > > name there... > > > > OJ IS ****OPEN-SOURCE****! read again in case you missed it: > > OJ IS ****OPEN-SOURCE****! > > > > > > Pedro Doria Meunier > > (351) 91 302 49 72 - (351) 96 247 99 12 > > MSN - [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > ICQ - 308-182-126 > > Skype: pdoriam > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > > Sunburned Surveyor > > Sent: quinta-feira, 2 de Novembro de 2006 0:45 > > To: List for discussion of JPP development and use. > > Subject: [JPP-Devel] Commercial Support For OpenJUMP > > > > I hope to offer some simple commercial support for OpenJUMP beginning > > in the first part of 2007. You can read about the reasons behind my > > decisions and some of the other details on my blog: > > > > http://openjump.blogspot.com/ > > > > The Sunburned Surveyor > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > - > > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, > > security? > > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job > > easier > > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache > > Geronimo > > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > > _______________________________________________ > > Jump-pilot-devel mailing list > > Jump-pilot-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jump-pilot-devel > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > jump-users mailing list > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://lists.refractions.net/mailman/listinfo/jump-users > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? > > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job > easier > > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo > > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > > _______________________________________________ > > Jump-pilot-devel mailing list > > Jump-pilot-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jump-pilot-devel > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job > easier > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > _______________________________________________ > Jump-pilot-devel mailing list > Jump-pilot-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jump-pilot-devel > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > _______________________________________________ > Jump-pilot-devel mailing list > Jump-pilot-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jump-pilot-devel > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 _______________________________________________ Jump-pilot-devel mailing list Jump-pilot-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jump-pilot-devel
