@SS, Regarding bundling the JRE, I think that there are still some things that are still misunderstood about the seriousness of the issue. Since we started bundling the JRE with SkyJUMP, our install problems have dropped to practically nothing. Before we did, there was a new install problem practically every week. You can run into IT policy issues that don't allow you to install Java at all, or specify a particular version, or don't allow Java updates without coordination. You may find that after you install a new version of Java, that other installed Java programs stop working due to the default JRE changing.
I don't understand the reluctance to have multiple copies of the JRE. This is the normal case when you install Java and let Sun install updates, since they never remove old versions for you - in case some program is depending on that particular version of Java. If all reliability and ease of installation costs is hard drive space and download time, I think most users would gladly spend it rather than working for a week getting the program to work. Finally, the bundled JRE is a private copy that is not available to other Java applications. This ensures that updating it will not break any other applications. This allows the latest JRE to be bundled without conflicting with some outdated IT policy that the officially sanctioned version of Java is 1.4 or whatever. These misguided policies were created in the first place because of program dependencies on a single installation of specific version of Java. If every application installed their own JRE, there would be no need for any such policy at all, and most users would be blissfully unaware that they were even running Java the way most windows users are blissfully unaware that their applications built with Windows Foundations Class include a separate copy of most of the WFC dlls. regards, Larry On 6/26/07, Sunburned Surveyor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Peppe, > > This is great feedback, and I see that Larry and Paul have already > commented. Let me respond to a couple of the things that you > mentioned. > > Peppe wrote: "Setup question. > I started to suggest Openjump to my friends or > students. > The main difficulty I found with people is connected > to Java machine. > Some people do not setup well JAVA machine so > Openjump does't work. > Some other "Windows" people simply don't understand to > "click on Openjum.bat" file to run Openjump. They > expect the launcher on the desktop (and .bat still > remember them the ol'good difficult DOS). > I started to give people a version of Openjump 1.2B > with Java embedded, similar to Openjump Merge. > Proposal: I think it would be fine to have on the web > site two versions of Openjump: a) one with setup and > Java embedded for easy people, b) the second one - no > java no stup - for smart people." > > We definitely need to have an .exe for Windows people. I believe this > can be done with something like JSmooth. We should add it to our to do > list for Windows. Either that or make a shortcut that just executes > the JAR. I don't even think most Windows users would notice it was a > BAT and not an EXE if it had a pretty icon on it. :] > > I don't really like the idea of packaging a virtual machine with > OpenJUMP. For one thing, it makes the download a lot bigger. Also, > what if the user already has a JVM installed? Does he really need two > on his computer? > > I think that a good alternative to this would be some detailed, > step-by-step instructions that explain why a JVM is necessary and how > to install it. Let's not assume all our users are idiots, lets educate > them. :] > > Peppe wrote: "3)DXF/DWG > Openjump is becoming, thanks to edit/drawing tools > and SVG export, a good mapping software. A lot of > mapping datas are in dwg format and some people cried > the absence of a dxf/dwg import option. I always > recomand them the good Michael's dxf plugin. > Proposal: If Michael agrees, this plugin could be > embedded in Openjump. > Regarding dwg I image it is only a problem of time." > > Let me assure you that I believe DXF support is one of the critical > functions for OpenJUMP and that it is in my top 3 list of things to > do. I hope to build on the work of Michael to make a top-notch DXF > import/export plug-in. All, and I mean every last drop, of the > geospatial data used at my office is in some type of CAD format. If I > am ever going to realize my goal of OpenJUMP integration at my job I > have to have killer CAD support. > > On a related note I wouldn't hold my breath for great DWG support. > There are a couple of reasons for this. DWG is a closed format for one > thing. The Open Design Alliance used to publish a spec for the format, > but they just lost some legal battles in the United States and our now > prohibited from doing this. The only way I see us getting DWG support > is if Autodesk publishes the DWG spec or offers some type of free Java > DWG access library. (When I get done with my DXF plug-in you won't > need DWG anyways.) :] > > Remember that DXF is the format Autodesk want's everyone to use to > transfer CAD data. DWG is their money making baby. > > Peppe wrote: "6)Editing tools (not very seriuos!) > It would be nice to have some editing tools in a > "Inkscape-like" style. > Examples, tranfering some editing tools on the mouse: > a) one left-click mouse>edit/move object > b) two left click mouse>edit/move verticles > c) three left-click mouse>free rotation > This probabiy makes Openjump editing tools more > "international-ized" > Is this something difficuld to build?" > > I've done a little bit of work towards this area. I'm in the middle of > replumbing the CursorTool code. I hope to add some support for CAD > like snapping, which should provide some improved editing > capabilities. > > The Sunburned Surveyor > > > > On 6/26/07, Larry Becker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi Peppe, > > > > Thanks for your input. We don't get enough of the user perspective > > on the list. > > > > Regarding transferring styles, I would point out the very useful > > copy style and paste style functions in OpenJump. Also, in addition > > to Paul's efforts, I will be porting over SkyJUMP's Merge Task > > function which lets you create new tasks from old ones. > > > > I have also found that Java is the main setup problem for new users. > > I believe it is necessary to bundle the Java Runtime Environment, and > > to include a windows executable. > > > > regards, > > Larry > > > > On 6/26/07, Paul Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I'm currently working on a whole bunch of enhancements to the styling, > > > specifically around the concept of Theming layers by multiple attribute > > > values. Part of this is a framework to be able to define the filters to > > > select features to match. > > > > > > As part of this I have implemented a very simple way of loading a saved > > > style definition from a Tab Separated file with the style rules. I plan > > > to extend this to allow more "standard" approaches to style definitions > > > such as SLD, when I get to that point we can then create the save/load > > > style from file functionality. > > > > > > I'm just working on the UI aspects of defining the styles, hopefully > > > I'll have something to share soon, > > > Paul > > > > > > Giuseppe Aruta wrote: > > > > Dear Developers > > > > After using Openjump for a while I wrote some > > > > observations and ideas that I had (as user, not as > > > > developer). > > > > I do not want to open a discussion, and probabily some > > > > of these points have no "common feeling" or probabily > > > > always had answer. > > > > I want only to share with you my experience as > > > > newcomer in Openjump, and also the feeling I had from > > > > other people I bring to Openjump > > > > I write them in order of importance (my personal > > > > point of view, of coarse!) > > > > > > > > 1) Export display parameters of a layer to other > > > > projects. > > > > The displayed parameters of a dataset (colours of > > > > lines, polygons, fill, winth, etc) are saved only in > > > > the program file (.JMP). Neverthess, if people want to > > > > use the same dataset in a different project, they must > > > > setup again the displayes parameters. > > > > At the beginning I thought that "View>Tranform layer > > > > Style into SLID" was the function to use. I had to > > > > change my idea. > > > > A function in Openjump that saves displayed > > > > parameters of a dataset to, for example, a sepatate > > > > extra XML or TXT file, would be fine. This file wuold > > > > be used to display again the same parameters when the > > > > dataset is opened again in other projects > > > > I have no idea about the difficulties for developers > > > > to build this function. > > > > The proposal is to have two extra functions on Layer > > > > Menu: "Save Layer Properties to (?) file" and a "Load > > > > Layer Properties from (?) file". > > > > > > > > 2) Setup question. > > > > I started to suggest Openjump to my friends or > > > > students. > > > > The main difficulty I found with people is connected > > > > to Java machine. > > > > Some people do not setup well JAVA machine so > > > > Openjump does't work. > > > > Some other "Windows" people simply don't understand to > > > > "click on Openjum.bat" file to run Openjump. They > > > > expect the launcher on the desktop (and .bat still > > > > remember them the ol'good difficult DOS). > > > > I started to give people a version of Openjump 1.2B > > > > with Java embedded, similar to Openjump Merge. > > > > Proposal: I think it would be fine to have on the web > > > > site two versions of Openjump: a) one with setup and > > > > Java embedded for easy people, b) the second one - no > > > > java no stup - for smart people. > > > > > > > > 3)DXF/DWG > > > > Openjump is becoming, thanks to edit/drawing tools > > > > and SVG export, a good mapping software. A lot of > > > > mapping datas are in dwg format and some people cried > > > > the absence of a dxf/dwg import option. I always > > > > recomand them the good Michael's dxf plugin. > > > > Proposal: If Michael agrees, this plugin could be > > > > embedded in Openjump. > > > > Regarding dwg I image it is only a problem of time. > > > > > > > > 4) Save file observation. > > > > There is still some confusion for newcomers about the > > > > difference betwee "Save Datasets as file..." and "Save > > > > dataset as..". (See Michael and Uwe discussion in > > > > [JPP-Devel] Load/Save dataset design). > > > > I tried to point out in a help documentation I posted > > > > some weeks ago. Nevertheless there are still newcomers > > > > who use "Save dataset as.." ... and they forget the > > > > suffix! I belive, like Uwe, that it is important to > > > > have a suffix built automatically. > > > > > > > > 5) PostGIS > > > > I think it's time to transalte Uwe's Portgis tutorial > > > > in English (if Uwe agrees, of coarse) maybe integrated > > > > with how to use Orbiscad and Openjump together. > > > > Proposal: Does somebody thranslate from German to > > > > English (otherwise this summer I will try to refresh > > > > my scarse German with Uwe's documentation)? > > > > > > > > 6)Editing tools (not very seriuos!) > > > > It would be nice to have some editing tools in a > > > > "Inkscape-like" style. > > > > Examples, tranfering some editing tools on the mouse: > > > > a) one left-click mouse>edit/move object > > > > b) two left click mouse>edit/move verticles > > > > c) three left-click mouse>free rotation > > > > This probabiy makes Openjump editing tools more > > > > "international-ized" > > > > Is this something difficuld to build? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for your attention > > > > > > > > Peppe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ___________________________________ > > > > L'email della prossima generazione? Puoi averla con la nuova Yahoo! > > > > Mail: http://it.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express > > > > Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take > > > > control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. > > > > http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Jump-pilot-devel mailing list > > > > Jump-pilot-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jump-pilot-devel > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express > > > Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take > > > control of your XML. No limits. Just data. 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