kde-speech can definitely be closed. Kde-speech is no longer a thing. We use QtSpeech upstream now for all speech needs.
On Fri, Apr 28, 2023 at 6:31 AM Joseph P. De Veaugh-Geiss <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Ben, thank you as well as Nico for the information, it is very helpful! > > If I understood correctly, there are at least these 3 categories for the > mailing lists: > > 1. bug reports lists > 2. commit filter lists > 3. discussion lists > > Perhaps a description of the different types of lists can be added to > https://mail.kde.org/? And a description tag can be added to the lists > at https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo? Something like: > > - Kdepim-bugs: "[bug-reports] KDE PIM bug list" > - Kexi-devel: "[commit-filter] For developers' discussion about KEXI" > - GCompris-devel: "[discussion] GCompris developers list" > > And for lists that mix the above: > - kde-multimedia: "[discussion, bug-reports] For discussion of > multimedia (sound/video) issues under KDE" > > I don't think these differences are immediately clear and perhaps > information about the different functions of the lists plus tags in the > list descriptions will help new KDE contributors find the right channels > for communication. (I will send a future mail about directing > contributors to the different channels of communication.) > > BTW the information you sent applies to many of the other 130 mailing > lists. However, in response to your three points below, I will focus on > the 51 mailing lists that seemed inactive in order keep the discussion > contained. These lists are arguably lower-hanging fruit to make > decisions about. > > On 4/28/23 11:59, Ben Cooksley wrote: > > HI Joseph, > > > > Couple of things to note here: > > > > 1) Some of these mailing lists deliberately have archiving disabled, so > > Mailman's archives cannot be relied on to determine if a list is still > > active or not. This is particularly the case for *-bugs mailing lists. I > > should note though that there is alternative functionality within > Bugzilla > > that can replicate this functionality, so a mailing list does not have to > > be used here (although some may prefer this for their email filters) > > I see no reason to close *-bugs lists if they are being used. However, > if the functionality is offered somewhere else AND the lists are not > being used, I think it makes sense to close them down. Not sure how to > determine that, though. Any suggestions? > > Regarding disabled archives, that means these 3 *-bugs mailing lists > likely have archives disabled: > * Cantor-bugs: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/cantor-bugs > * kde-games-bugs: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-games-bugs > * neon-bugs: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/neon-bugs > > And this one either turned off archives in 2008 or is inactive: > * kdelibs-bugs: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kdelibs-bugs > > > 2) Some of these lists are certainly defunct (kde-dashboard for one) and > > can definitely be closed down > > Should there be outreach to the moderator of a list before determining > it is defunct? How does one contact the moderator (other than by posting > to the list directly)? Some lists may have low activity but still be > active and worth keeping open. > > Re what Johnny wrote: I agree, defunct lists should be archived. Do we > have a preferred way to do that? There is at least precedent from > KWrite-devel to use "Mailing list ARChives" (https://marc.info/). > > > 3) Some of the lists are commit filter lists which are no longer > operating > > (khtml-cvs for one) and should be archived. > > I am not exactly sure what a commit filter list is, but I can guess and > it seemed there were several. I assume these fall into that category: > > * Kde-buildsystem: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-buildsystem > * Marble-commits: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/marble-commits > * Ksecretservice-devel: > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/ksecretservice-devel > * Kde-speech: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-speech > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kexi-devel > * Kexi-devel: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kexi-devel > > And perhaps this (although it seems there is a mix of automated and > discussion posts): > > * kopete-devel: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kopete-devel > > The 4 *-bugs lists plus the 5 lists above plus khtml-cvs = 10 mailing > lists. The question remains: of the 41 remaining mailing lists how to > decide which are defunct and what to do with them? > > Not trying to make more work for you or anyone else, but I think closing > down inactive channels could be a (small) step in the direction of > strengthening internal communication. > > Don't hesitate to let me know what I can do to help with this. > > Cheers, > Joseph > > > Cheers, > > Ben > > > > On Fri, Apr 28, 2023 at 9:52 AM Joseph P. De Veaugh-Geiss < > [email protected]> > > wrote: > > > >> Cross-posting to the relevant mailing lists. > >> > >> To discuss, please answer to [email protected]. > >> > >> tl;dr There are several inactive or unused lists of the 181 mailing > >> lists at KDE. What do we want to do with them? > >> > >> This is a post about inactive or unused mailing lists. For a general > >> discussion about (active) mailing lists at KDE, please start a new > >> thread or wait until I address that, likely in the very near future. > >> > >> _Inactive Mailing Lists_ > >> > >> For a better understanding of what works and what needs improvement in > >> KDE's internal communications, I started by looking at the 181 mailing > >> lists publicly listed at: > >> > >> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/ > >> > >> Here I see 51 mailing lists which might be considered inactive, some of > >> which were never used at all. There may be more to add to this upon > >> further inspection, but these seem like a good place to start. > >> > >> By inactive I mean there has been very low or no activity in the past > >> 2-3 years at least, and for most lists the last post was 4+ years ago. > >> For several of these lists, there are long gaps in activity, often with > >> no community responses to the most recent posts. > >> > >> The 51 mailing lists are included at the end of this email. > >> > >> Importantly, I know a list with infrequent activity is *not* the same as > >> a list that has no activity. Some communities do not need regular > >> communication for that community to be active. If you see your > >> community's mailing list here and think it is a mistake, please let me > >> know! My apologies in advance if this is the case. > >> > >> Crucially, do not interpret an inactive mailing list to mean a project > >> is inactive. It only means the mailing list is not a frequently used > >> channel of communication. There are many other channels for community > >> discussion (e.g., Matrix, Discuss, etc.). > >> > >> _Some Questions To The KDE Community_ > >> > >> * What do we want to do with inactive or unused mailing lists? > >> > >> * Is there a policy for retiring inactive lists? I didn't see > anything > >> at the Community Wiki. [1] > >> > >> * Does KDE have internal infrastructure to archive mailing lists for > >> posterity? I see kwrite-devel [2] archived old posts at the "Mailing > >> list ARChives" [3]. > >> > >> * Do we want to nudge traffic from low activity mailing lists to > >> somewhere with generally higher activity (specifically, I am thinking > >> Discuss)? I can imagine being in a more active online space could > >> increase general participation for otherwise low activity groups. > >> > >> _Inactive Lists: To Close Or Not To Close_ > >> > >> I am sure there are reasons both for and against closing mailing lists. > >> Here are just some reasons I can think of to close inactive ones: > >> > >> * The more communication channels there are, the more fractured KDE's > >> communication is. > >> > >> * It may not be obvious to new (or even old) contributors that a list > >> is no longer in use, resulting in wasted energy signing up for an > >> inactive one. > >> > >> * Trying to engage with an inactive list may reduce motivation for > >> futher contributions from members, especially when posts go unanswered. > >> > >> * Moving some communities to more lively platforms may increase their > >> overall activity. > >> > >> * There could be a slight efficiency/ecological benefit for KDE's > >> server infrastructure by removing or deactivating unused services. > >> > >> Pleae keep in mind: I am not judging the value of any particular group > >> by pointing out low activity, or arguing we need to close any specific > >> list. If there is a reason -- any reason at all -- to keep a list open, > >> then let's keep it open! I myself like mailing lists for various forms > >> of communication (announcements, long-form discussion, information which > >> I want to archive locally for future reference, etc.). > >> > >> If I made any mistakes in my summary here, please let me know. It is a > >> challenge to go through 181 lists and not make any errors, though I > >> tried my best not to. > >> > >> I look forward to reading your thoughts and suggestions! > >> > >> Cheers, > >> Joseph > >> > >> [1] https://community.kde.org/Infrastructure/Mailing-Lists > >> [2] https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kwrite-devel > >> [3] https://marc.info/ > >> > >> # Overview > >> > >> Of the 181 mailing lists listed publicly, I found the following: > >> > >> * 12 are lists that have never been used and 1 was already closed > >> * 27 are potentially-inactive general lists > >> * 11 are potentially-inactive language or country-specific lists > >> > >> # Unused / Closed Mailing Lists [13 Lists] > >> > >> ## Never Used [12 lists] ("No messages have been posted to this list > >> yet, so the archives are currently empty.") > >> > >> * Calligra-author: > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/calligra-author > >> * Cantor-bugs: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/cantor-bugs > >> * Gcompris-espanol: > >> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/gcompris-espanol > >> * Kde-dashboard: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-dashboard > >> * kde-games-bugs: > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-games-bugs > >> * Kde-i18n-it: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-i18n-it > >> * Kde-l10n-my: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-l10n-my > >> * Kde-l10n-sw: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-l10n-sw > >> * KDE-Look: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-look > >> * Kde-partnership: > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-partnership > >> * Kdepim-builds: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kdepim-builds > >> * neon-bugs: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/neon-bugs > >> > >> ## Officially Closed [1 list] > >> > >> * kde-nonlinux: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-nonlinux > >> > >> # Inactive General Lists [27 lists] > >> > >> ## Currently Inactive With Almost No Previous Activity [5 lists] > >> > >> * kde-artists: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-artists > >> * Heaptrack: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/heaptrack > >> * CuteHMI: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/cutehmi > >> * Khtml-cvs: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/khtml-cvs > >> * Cki-attendees: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/cki-attendees > >> > >> ## Currently Inactive With Low Previous Activity [2 lists] > >> > >> * Snorenotify: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/snorenotify > >> * KXStitch: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kxstitch > >> > >> ## Currently Inactive But Previously Active [16 lists] > >> > >> * Choquk-devel: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/choqok-devel > >> * Kde-embedded: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-embedded > >> * Kde-buildsystem: > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-buildsystem > >> * WikiToLearn: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitolearn > >> * Marble-commits: > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/marble-commits > >> * Ksecretservice-devel: > >> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/ksecretservice-devel > >> * KDE-Telepathy: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-telepathy > >> * Kde-speech: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-speech > >> * Kexi: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kexi > >> * Enterprise: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/enterprise > >> * Marble: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/marble > >> * kde-women: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-women > >> * kde-usa: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-usa > >> * kopete-devel: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kopete-devel > >> * Kde-scm-interest: > >> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-scm-interest > >> * Kexi-devel: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kexi-devel > >> > >> ## No Activity In 7+ Years [4 lists] > >> > >> * SymbolEditor: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/symboleditor > >> * Gcompris-portugues: > >> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/gcompris-portugues > >> * kdelibs-bugs: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kdelibs-bugs > >> * QmlWeb: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/qmlweb > >> > >> # Inactive Language/Country-Specific Mailing Lists [11 lists] > >> > >> ## Currently Inactive With Almost No Previous Activity [2 lists] > >> > >> * Kde-i18n-eu: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-i18n-eu > >> * Kde-edu-pt_br: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-edu-pt_br > >> > >> ## Currently Inactive But Previously Active [5 lists] > >> > >> * Kde-i18n-uk: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-i18n-uk > >> * KDE-india: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-india > >> * Kde-l10n-in: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-l10n-in > >> * Kde-latam: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-latam > >> * Kde-l10n-kn: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-l10n-kn > >> > >> ## No Activity In 7+ Years [3 lists] > >> > >> * Kde-el: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-el > >> * kde-mexico: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-mexico > >> * Kde-l10n-si: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-l10n-si > >> > >> ## Infrequently Active [1 list] > >> > >> * KDE-Italia: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-italia > >> > >> -- > >> Joseph P. De Veaugh-Geiss > >> KDE Internal Communications & KDE Eco Community Manager > >> OpenPGP: 8FC5 4178 DC44 AD55 08E7 DF57 453E 5746 59A6 C06F > >> Matrix: @joseph:kde.org > >> > >> Generally available Monday-Thursday from 10-16h CET/CEST. Outside of > >> these times it may take a little longer for me to respond. > >> > >> KDE Eco: Building Energy-Efficient Free Software! > >> Website: https://eco.kde.org > >> Mastodon: @[email protected] > >> > >> > > > > -- > Joseph P. De Veaugh-Geiss > KDE Internal Communications & KDE Eco Community Manager > OpenPGP: 8FC5 4178 DC44 AD55 08E7 DF57 453E 5746 59A6 C06F > Matrix: @joseph:kde.org > > Generally available Monday-Thursday from 10-16h CET/CEST. Outside of > these times it may take a little longer for me to respond. > > KDE Eco: Building Energy-Efficient Free Software! > Website: https://eco.kde.org > Mastodon: @[email protected] >
