Perhaps it is helpful to provide a summary of the responses so far so we
can figure out the best way forward.
Sometimes hard decisions need to be made, and all of your opinions are
important. I hope everyone's views are represented below. If not, please
let me know, it was not intentional.
Note: some comments come from the "Telegram shutdown co-ordination" room
(https://go.kde.org/matrix/#/#telegram-shutdown:kde.org), where many of
you may not have seen it.
Please remember: we are all on the same team, even if we may have
different opinions about the best course of action. We are a great group
of people, we can figure this out!
Cheers,
Joseph
_Summary of what started the discussion_
* When Matrix became the official communication channel at KDE,
Telegram bridging was intended as a temporary solution, but it never got
shut down
* The Telegram bridge is causing ongoing technical issues for KDE,
e.g., loading resources & user duplication, spam, admins being locked
out, etc.
* Work being done now given the shutdown of public Libera.Chat bridge
overlaps with the shutdown of the Telegram bridges
* Some exceptions to the bridge shutdown may be made, but primarily
for externally-oriented teams
_Some proposed solutions (see for/against below for more context)_
* Extend the timeframe for the Telegram bridge shutdown and migration
* Keep bridges open for teams that need it (e.g., VDG)
* Code a more reliable Telegram bridge
* Shut down Telegram bridges, but do not shut down the Telegram
channels, inform users that the official channel is on Matrix (pinned
message linking to IRC-matrix, e.g., like with Reddit)
_Summary of positions against retiring the bridges (as proposed)_
* Timeframe is too short / unrealistic for the migration needed
(removing links to Telegram, point to Matrix; rewriting custom software)
* Should have been discussed publicly (see also below) / should have
been discussed with end users on Telegram / communication should have
been better
* We will lose contributors / onboarding will be harder / we will lose
relevancy with end users
* Some teams primarily on Telegram (e.g., KDE Connect, Kdenlive in
Spanish and English, #kde_ru:kde.org)
* Matrix clients are buggy or have a worse user experience / Matrix is
too complicated / it alienates potential devs or increases obstacles for
non-technical communities (e.g., VDG team with graphic designers,
artists) / end users generally do not use Matrix / one moderator prefers
tools available on Telegram
* Technological reasons given for this choice are lacking (UserBots
instead of normal bots, need for admin privileges not explained, spam
solved with captchas for other channels)
* We use other proprietary platforms (e.g., Reddit, Facebook) and
develop software for proprietary systems (macOS, Windows), why not Telegram
* Such limitations take time away from actual coding / there were more
contributors and ad-hoc contributions when using Telegram (KMyMoney) /
cutting off end users on Telegram is not coherent with KDE's vision,
mission, manifesto
* Migrating to Matrix is not high in the hierarchy of needs, more
important is not being blocked by an authoritarian regime / other
migrations are currently taking place, no time right now
_Summary of positions for retiring the bridges_
* Above issues already discussed publicly in previous mailing list
threads (see [1] and [2])
* Issues were also discussed at an Matrix/IRC/Telegram BoF at Akademy
[3], no one showed up to argue in favor of Telegram
* Technical problems are unmanageable / bridging artifacts annoying
for end users (users duplication, quoting "ircsomebot", truncating
messages, message delays)
* Telegram is proprietary software, using it is not coherent for a
FOSS community
* Many KDE teams are not on Telegram or not bridged at all (Plasma,
KDE-Development, "New Contributors", new goals, most new apps, Akademy
organization) / Telegram is not generally needed
* Onboarding typically involves opening various accounts (e.g.,
identity account, a bugzilla account), why not a Matrix one
* Telegram links at Wiki are largely broken, some groups are inactive,
and some are not bridged in the first place
* Retiring the bridge is problematic for a relatively small number of
teams, exceptions are possible, let's decide which ones are needed
* We can improve the situation with Matrix (fix Neochat bugs, write
better wiki documentation)
[1] https://mail.kde.org/pipermail/kde-community/2023q2/007607.html
[2] https://mail.kde.org/pipermail/kde-community/2023q2/007656.html
[3] https://community.kde.org/Akademy/2023/IM_Infrastructure_BoF
--
Joseph P. De Veaugh-Geiss
KDE Internal Communications & KDE Eco Community Manager
OpenPGP: 8FC5 4178 DC44 AD55 08E7 DF57 453E 5746 59A6 C06F
Matrix: @joseph:kde.org
Generally available Monday-Thursday from 10-16h CET/CEST. Outside of
these times it may take a little longer for me to respond.
KDE Eco: Building Energy-Efficient Free Software!
Website: https://eco.kde.org
Mastodon: @[email protected]
