On Sunday 29 Aug 2010 09:47:29 Simon Eugster wrote: > > @Anne, Thanks for your hint. I've been playing around with userbase > this morning, trying to search for nasty limitations I knew from > earlier ;) and checking whether it might be worth a try. > What I've found out that pretty everything I used in wikibooks is > possible in userbase as well now. Custom templates, custom CSS > formatting, image descriptions. So, believe it or not, at the moment > I'd as well vote for userbase. > > What makes me worry a little bit is the translations. The czech one is > maybe the most complete, or up-to-date, documentation at the moment. > But Czech cannot be used as master language (raise your hand if you > speak Czech) for the other translations. Using English as master > language (which would make sense because most translators speak it) > would force us to use exactly the same content in other languages as > well, but (as an example) what if someone speaking Czech only wants to > add some great content to the manual?
First, you are quite correct in assuming that English must be the master document. Once translations exist in the new system they cannot be directly edited, so your Czech-only-speaking person could not add to it. To my knowledge we have not yet met this problem, but one solution might be to have the text written onto the Talk/Discussion page. From there it would be easy for a translator to pick it up and incorporate it into the English page, which would, in turn, ensure that it goes into all languages - a big benefit to all. In addition, we have a started but not yet advanced program of creating categories such as 'Pages in English', 'Sider på dansk', 'Stránky v dánštině' or 'Сторінки в данській'. On the Category Pages associated with those it would be simple to add an instruction to users to add their tips to the Discussion page. > > How do other projects handle that? In my opinion, the translation > system should not force all languages to use the same structure and > content. Unless the master structure is perfect … > I'm not certain what you have in mind here, so I'll just talk about how the system works. You can ask more questions then, if you need to. Once you hit the 'Translate this page' link you ask to see all messages, or all untranslated messages. They are shown to you as paragraphs, as though you were translating in Lokalize. You can translate as many 'messages' as you have time for, save it, and carry on later. The structure, then, is forced, but providing the markup is correct you have some leeway on things like sentence structure. We are still in early stages of finding problems, but are editing our documentation frequently as we learn from translators of the problems encountered and preferred solutions. Yuri Chornovan is probably the best person to speak to, for the translator experience. He has been involved from the beginning, has the most experience working with both UserBase and DocBook, and is in frequent contact with us. > I found out that it would be possible to export DocBook as well from > wikibooks. But it would require quite some handwork (an existing > plugin I found is alpha only and also exports to an old DocBook > version only). Our coding time might better be spent on kdenlive & Co. > We have talked a lot with Burkhard Lueck, and the preferred method is for the UserBase page to be marked for translation, and the i10n team told it is ready. The same Translate extension as is used for on-line translation can export to Gettext. The team use this to pull the prepared page and then use their own customised scripts to prepare the DocBook. I understand from Burkhard that they get much better results than with any of the off-the-peg tools. One other thing that I should mention. We have on our sandbox the facility to create PDF books - that is, the user can pick out the pages he particularly needs printing out, and create his own book. The limitation at the moment is that it contains all the translation tags, but in the not-too-distant future that should be sorted. We know the answer to it, but can't implement it just yet. I hope this gives you a bit clearer idea of the possibilities, but of course you are welcome to ask any more questions here or on #kde-www. Anne -- KDE Community Working Group New to KDE Software? - get help from http://userbase.kde.org
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