-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 It still works if you adopt the approach fully. I make separate components "POWER_INDUCTOR" etc that have one terminal a power input and the other a power output.
On 06/02/16 09:55, André S. wrote: > This may work when the output is directly connected to the net. But > if you have some output/input filter behind it this will not work > as expected, you still need the power flag then. > > André > > On 06.02.2016 18:29, Andrew Zonenberg wrote: I do the same thing - > power flags and hidden pins are banned in my designs. To supply > power to a net I set the "power output" flag on the pins of the > connector going to the battery/power plug. > > On 06/02/16 09:23, André S. wrote: >>>> Ok, I see your point regarding not breaking old designs. >>>> >>>> However: the current KiCad broke mine, since it does regard >>>> hidden pins different than "the old KiCad" (around 2013). The >>>> old KiCad connected a visible "hidden pin" only to the >>>> connected net. The current KiCad still connects it to "VDD" >>>> regardless of the connected net and therefore connects two >>>> different named nets. Which then forbids the use of "VDD" for >>>> a power net, when you use a KiCad library part with hidden >>>> pins in your design and connect its power pin to a no-"VDD" >>>> net. >>>> >>>> BUT if I did "the right thing" right from start, KiCad would >>>> have warned me, that I connected two "power nets". Which it >>>> does when I place a "power flag" on each net. (Which is one >>>> way where KiCad forces its "true way" where other tools have >>>> the "power flag" built into the power net symbols.) >>>> >>>> I learned my lesson on this one: do not use KiCad library >>>> parts, create your own. >>>> >>>> Regarding multiple names on (not power) nets. There was a >>>> discussion some time ago. If I remember correctly, most >>>> people that use that feature would be OK with net-aliases >>>> (which is what they use that feature for) and having a fixed >>>> name on that net. Currently when a net has a name and you add >>>> a new label it may occur that KiCad uses the new label name >>>> for the net. In the PCB the trace then gets a new name, which >>>> may not be what the user intended. Also with the current >>>> implementation you may accidentally connect two nets and have >>>> _no_ way to check this with ERC. >>>> >>>> My proposal on this is: Newer KiCad versions can check for >>>> multiple names on a net and raise an error/warning when it >>>> sees one. Therefore the user has a way to see accidentally >>>> connected nets. Regarding not breaking old designs: One way: >>>> KiCad will need a dialog window where the user can add >>>> aliases to the net to keep current functionality. This dialog >>>> may be accessible from the ERC report window to give the user >>>> a way to do it the "right way". Net aliases are then handled >>>> like net labels but do not (re)define the name of the net in >>>> the netlist. OR second way: The user ignores the >>>> error/warning and works as before. >>>> >>>> André >>>> >>>> On 06.02.2016 16:52, Wayne Stambaugh wrote: >>>>> I would not have allowed that to be implemented. One thing >>>>> I try to avoid is forcing users down the "one true way" >>>>> path of pcb design whenever possible. I prefer to give >>>>> users the flexibility to design as they see fit even if it >>>>> means that kicad has a steeper learning curve. I don't >>>>> pretend to be wise enough to know what the "one true way" >>>>> is and I really don't like someone else forcing it upon me >>>>> so it would be hypocritical of me to force it upon someone >>>>> else. If you are comfortable with hidden pins, use them. >>>>> If not, don't. >>>>> >>>>> On 2/6/2016 9:59 AM, Thor-Arne wrote: >>>>>> I agree with Chris on the hidden pins issue, old design >>>>>> should not be broken. >>>>> That is also a no-no for the project. One of the goals of >>>>> kicad is to make every effort to maintain backwards >>>>> compatibility. >>>>> >>>>>> When it comes to net names I think they should be forced >>>>>> to be unique. >>>>>> >>>>>> Anyway, are we going to collect features requests now? >>>>>> Would it be better to have a wanted-feauture list on >>>>>> github instead of the mail list so nothing gets lost? >>>>> Take a look at the release 5 (current development cycle) >>>>> road map. Maybe we can add it to one of the existing tasks >>>>> where it makes sense. Please keep in mind, we cannot >>>>> endlessly add tasks to the release 5 road map. We need to >>>>> be realistic about what we can achieve given our current >>>>> manpower. I can always add new tasks to the global road >>>>> map for future dev cycles. >>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Chris Pavlina Sent: >>>>>> Saturday, February 06, 2016 3:30 PM To: André S. Cc: >>>>>> KiCad Developers Subject: Re: [Kicad-developers] >>>>>> Discussion: Hidden Pins, Net labels >>>>>> >>>>>> Eh. I agree 100% about hidden pins being Bad, anyone >>>>>> using them surely should be tarred and feathered. But I'm >>>>>> not sure it's our place to enforce good schematic drawing >>>>>> practices. If people want to use KiCad to draw terrible, >>>>>> horrible schematics, they'll find a way. Personally, I'm >>>>>> *strongly* against breaking old projects, the feature >>>>>> should be kept around at least as a legacy support >>>>>> feature for old projects that are imported. >>>>>> >>>>>> I just don't use hidden pins, they're strictly forbidden >>>>>> in my libs and I would never use them for anything other >>>>>> than implementing power symbols. >>>>>> >>>>>> On the fence about net names. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, Feb 06, 2016 at 03:22:04PM +0100, André S. >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> Hi everyone, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> this issues are still on my wishlist for KiCad: - Ban >>>>>>> hidden Pins. - Disallow multiple labels on the same >>>>>>> net. Especially the combination of those two is a >>>>>>> source for non-obvious design bugs. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Wayne recently stated that now the planning for release >>>>>>> 5 has started, so I just thought I bring it up again. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I wrote a blog entry why I think those two topics >>>>>>> should be addressed, you can find it here (warning: >>>>>>> wall of text ahead ;)): >>>>>>> http://transistorgrab.de/2016/02/05/why-hidden-pins-are-evil-and - -ne > >>>>>>> ts-should-only-have-one-name/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> > I'm really interested that at least there is a definite conclusion > for >>>>>>> KiCad and that this conclusion is then put somewhere >>>>>>> obvious in the documentation with all the pitfalls that >>>>>>> come with that features and how to avoid them. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks in advance for anyone taking part in the >>>>>>> discussion. :) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best Regards, André >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ Mailing >>>>>>> list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers Post to >>>>>>> : [email protected] Unsubscribe : >>>>>>> https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers More help : >>>>>>> https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>>>>> _______________________________________________ Mailing >>>>>> list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers Post to >>>>>> : [email protected] Unsubscribe : >>>>>> https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers More help : >>>>>> https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ Mailing >>>>>> list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers Post to >>>>>> : [email protected] Unsubscribe : >>>>>> https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers More help : >>>>>> https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>>>> _______________________________________________ Mailing >>>>> list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers Post to >>>>> : [email protected] Unsubscribe : >>>>> https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers More help : >>>>> https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ Mailing >>>> list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers Post to : >>>> [email protected] Unsubscribe : >>>> https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers More help : >>>> https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJWtqh0AAoJEDRhermzHH18GQcP/AutU9AT4p5+vwx/6ueIYDG4 Aw9kZLEI1RzD3WB1OWlZ3V+6TPlAr1BUKnBNRjFxKYD0Gp7siDFZS1zGPT2DvRh3 Ioo4GeT5IbnA3v6AjQNVJPRaWOD6Kw/WWdit/faIRmL3mhu0IQMBimx4cx82vMWm kPEMI2r8C/EMAlwUaczUfzCtCugFQHjIqsHWI9X+xXAi977ikRk0zWMO/HN1H71y NyymnOTPjDAIMQZwVr33buNpOwXFHeIjOFzF0zfzkFZ24qxOlmPmmgpvUJoq8cnS tVHxc4ExwyuP24j9Mq/2g7L3SpYtJP140WGUBNctCCcDeIjXxMFc4jnlyfAQ1xN/ zUbvGT8xB0GdZKychofF8hGhg/887qqBMmExamzXP/fo66kDmjX45vJu1Kl0vekW I7CFm0sAHdMXeyzbIDHTimB86TY3+VWPXSxwoJxoJTI5r0wb+D7GNsnAWg94EOFW qz7/JbBS+Jwvr9+Q71CM0YhIOCFQHBKGSRobjlAQpvAz01FnRei1e2HseEP8DPph N+y6gr6aGISGqKCAgeCvBj4Xxm4VPWezj5ceT2h+OjsJb/Y85glVEDXpUdpr0R+2 8Fmd/0Q5Lxi/bgFaiyCiSf/KHzfc6XvOZzzlMugMM/ZZ+3eA7dV1YGpnfKhlI3Op 8jE4094C1Z1kuzZZMgFa =GGJ4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers Post to : [email protected] Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
