The technicalities of creating nested grouping is not the biggest problem. The real headache I would say is how to get this intuitive and how to present this to the user. The current implementation everyone can agree is useful and not that hard to understand/redo/change.
I would suggest I fix the file format additions and save/load, and then this get merged. Nested groups create a few additional UI questions that I dont have any answer to as of yet. But extending this work to enable nested groups is not that hard. - Kristoffer On 01/13/2017 03:51 PM, Maciej Sumiński wrote: > Hi Kristoffer, > > Please consider the following ideas, perhaps you will find it useful: > > * Create a PCB_GROUP class inheriting from BOARD_ITEM_CONTAINER > > As BOARD_ITEM_CONTAINER is also a BOARD_ITEM, you get an easy way of > creating nested groups. This also enables selecting a group with the > selection tool, as the group is now a part of the board. Another benefit > is a possibility of graphic representation (a border/semitransparent > background) to indicate a group. You can also have a single item > belonging to several groups, if someone finds it useful. > PCB_GROUPs would have to be stored in a BOARD object. > The downside is dealing with the undo buffer and netlist updates. As a > result of certain operations BOARD_ITEMs are added & removed, and their > groups have to be updated too. Perhaps a set of shared_ptrs in > BOARD_ITEM to its parent GROUPs would fix the problem, but it may need > some further consideration. > > * Room recipe (just to evaluate if it is feasible with the current approach) > > Rooms/channels are usually done by embedding a single schematic sheet > multiple times. This fact is reflected in the component sheet path, so > it is easy to determine corresponding components in different rooms. > Example sheet paths for two components in two different subsheets: > > | sheet 1 | sheet 2 > ---+----------+--------- > C1 | /12C/FA0 | /81A/FA0 > R1 | /12C/41E | /81A/41E > > Rooms (groups) would be created upon request during netlist import, > basing on the schematic sheet path. > Copying one room layout to another: > * Find a reference component in both rooms (e.g. C1) > * Computing relative position of other components in the source room > * Apply the relative position to components in the destination room > > The tricky part is recreating the tracks/vias. To do so, one needs to > find all the room internal tracks and copy them to the destination room, > updating the nets. Perhaps that will be simpler with the new > connectivity algorithm, but a possible way is: > * Iterate through all components pads in the source room > * Find the attached tracks and see if they lead to another component in > the same room. If it is true, the track should be copied. > * Propagate nets from pads. > > Regards, > Orson > > On 01/13/2017 03:23 PM, Kristoffer Ödmark wrote: >> Okay, got it. >> >> For the group selection thing, I did some quick tests today, and only >> letting board items belong to one group at a time seems like a good way, >> letting them belong to multiple groups gave me a headache in how to >> implement any way of handling the groups. >> >> This would then change the format for the pcb file with one value under >> every saved board item in the kicad_pcb file. suggesting (group <name>) >> to be used for this. ( tracks, vias, texts, etc etc ) >> >> This does not hinder the development for hierarchy of the groups later >> on. That could be fixed with having another field later which keeps >> track of the hierarchy and parents/childs groups. >> >> I looked over my implementation and changed everything to use wxStrings >> and wxArrayStrings, to be more like current things in Kicad, I do not >> know if this was an issue or not. >> >> Is the file format upgrade for the current implementation okay? If it is >> I will start implementing it this weekend. >> >> - Kristoffer >> >> On 01/13/2017 02:07 PM, Wayne Stambaugh wrote: >>> Kristoffer, >>> >>> I was merely talking about getting your initial implementation correct >>> in Pcbnew to prevent issues with the full implementation down the road. >>> While I'm OK with opening up a full design specification, I think it's a >>> bit premature and will distract us from the immediate work at hand. >>> None of the schematic group linking work can happen until the new >>> schematic and symbol library file formats are complete. I want to keep >>> the focus on grouping in Pcbnew for the time being and not get bogged >>> down in a full implementation specification. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Wayne >>> >>> On 1/12/2017 3:38 PM, Kristoffer Ödmark wrote: >>>> I think Physical design reuse (PDR) is far out of scope of the group >>>> selection idea. However it Might be used. I actually put some thinking >>>> on howto implement some kind of PDR into Kicad without having to >>>> redesign everything existing already. Its in a google doc with comments >>>> enabled. >>>> >>>> [Google docs link] >>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ivRRu7F2g6_WU9bgHlaUTaXZw02oluMh4NA41BqEM-8/edit?usp=sharing >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> PDR discussions I think should be in a separate thread, since the amount >>>> of work to get there is quite a bit more, involves both eeschema and >>>> pcbnew, new file formatting, specifying workflows etc etc. >>>> >>>> Its called snippets in A****m, PDR in PADS. >>>> >>>> - Kristoffer >>>> >>>> On 2017-01-12 18:47, Clemens Koller wrote: >>>>> Hello! >>>>> >>>>> This feature looks really useful in production if it's implemented >>>>> properly. >>>>> Some comments from my side how things could be extended in the future: >>>>> >>>>> Group selection (also read: table-based/parametric-based selection!) >>>>> seems like a great feature and the step towards physical design reuse >>>>> (PDR). >>>>> With some intelligent grouping of routed components and >>>>> automatic/assisted selection of components based on netlist-topology >>>>> (or manual or table based selection) it is possible to create a >>>>> physical design reuse (or channels) by duplicating groups with the >>>>> same layout but different component references + different net names / >>>>> instances of net names. >>>>> An additional approach is intelligent "group editing" (table based - a >>>>> must have for complex designs!) where there is an automatic / assisted >>>>> rename of components and netnames to create reuses. This also applies >>>>> to the schematic entry, obviously. >>>>> >>>>> The word "intelligent" above means obviously, that there is some >>>>> infrastructure and coding work to consider. >>>>> >>>>> An example screenshot of one of my designs using a buggy commercial >>>>> product is attached. There are 60 similar channels. >>>>> Layouting these manually would be a hell of work, obviously. >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> >>>>> Clemens >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 2017-01-12 17:37, Wayne Stambaugh wrote: >>>>>> I think this feature would be useful but we should proceed with >>>>>> caution >>>>>> if we are going to include persistence. I'm guessing making groups >>>>>> persistent will require a change to the pcb file format. We should >>>>>> think this through thoroughly before moving forward. Is it possible >>>>>> that this grouping could be used for an a****m like room feature? If >>>>>> so, than we need to plan this out accordingly rather than just >>>>>> commit a >>>>>> new feature for the sake of convenience. >>>>>> >>>>>> On 1/12/2017 6:55 AM, Tomasz Wlostowski wrote: >>>>>>> I like it. Give me a few days to review it and I hope it will get >>>>>>> merged. You'll also have to make the groups persistent (save to >>>>>>> file). >>>>>>> Recursive grouping (group of groups) would be also an advantage. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>> Tom >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -------- Original message -------- >>>>>>> From: Kristoffer Ödmark <kristofferodmar...@gmail.com> >>>>>>> Date: 12/01/2017 12:41 (GMT+01:00) >>>>>>> To: kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Kicad-developers] Group selection idea >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hey again, What would be the chances of seing this getting into the >>>>>>> master branches on launchpad, what would I have to add/change to >>>>>>> get it >>>>>>> there? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - Kristoffer >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 2017-01-11 21:59, Kristoffer Ödmark wrote: >>>>>>>> Attaching Patch! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ( Thanks Chris! ) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 2017-01-11 20:51, Kristoffer Ödmark wrote: >>>>>>>>> Hello! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I hacked together a group selection concept looking like this: >>>>>>>>> https://youtu.be/eJp-aJ8i0H4 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It can assign BOARD_ITEM to a specific group for easier >>>>>>>>> selection and >>>>>>>>> group manipulation. I am open to suggestions on changes, this is >>>>>>>>> surely >>>>>>>>> not an optimal implementation. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Useful when you may want to keep the relative position of >>>>>>>>> something on >>>>>>>>> the board like maybe a RF layout etc. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It cannot currently save the group assignments between sessions, >>>>>>>>> since >>>>>>>>> that would require some changes to the file format. That would >>>>>>>>> need some >>>>>>>>> agreement that this is indeed wanted. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> it also doesnt work on zones right now. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ps: I do not now the best way to attach a patch file. >>>>>>>>> I added my feature >>>>>>>>> commit >>>>>>>>> git pull >>>>>>>>> fix conflict >>>>>>>>> commit >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Anyone have any steps on how to get one patch file for this, now I >>>>>>>>> got >>>>>>>>> one patch file, and a merge. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> - Kristoffer >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>>>>> Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net >>>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>>>>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>>>>> Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net >>>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>>>>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>>>> Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net >>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>>>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>>>> Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net >>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>>>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>> Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net >>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>> Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net >>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>> >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > -- -Kristoffer _______________________________________________ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
