This is funny. Without being aware of Horizon (at that time), originally I was hoping to implement something like that in the net inspector. But then I had to take shortcuts...
Cheers, Oleg On Wed, 2020-09-23 at 10:58 +0200, Kliment (Future Bits) wrote: > For length tuning, the nicest interface I've seen is the one in Horizon > as demonstrated at the 2019 FOSDEM talk > https://archive.fosdem.org/2019/schedule/event/horizon/ at about 9 > minutes in - it's not a long way between this and the hacked net > inspector dialog you describe. > > Kliment > > On 23.09.20 10:48, Oleg Endo wrote: > > This external spreadsheet nonsense was one reason why I converted the > > net inspector dialog to be non-modal. And with filtering, grouping and > > sort-by-length it can be actually a very useful and productive tool. > > I've used my own "hacked" version on several designs already. :) > > > > Cheers, > > Oleg > > > > On Wed, 2020-09-23 at 09:45 +0200, Nick Østergaard wrote: > > > Hi > > > > > > Slightly related to this discussion and for inspiration: > > > > > > https://twitter.com/azonenberg/status/1282188633118699520 > > > > > > Nick > > > > > > On Wed, 23 Sep 2020 at 09:43, Alexander Shuklin <jasura...@gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > > > Hi Kliment, > > > > I think if these things you explained will be implemented, it will make > > > > high speed design very much easier. > > > > And the problem is much worse if you have a lot of differential pairs. > > > > When I see design and the only thing which I can do with differential > > > > pairs is to tune length or redraw, I feel stressed. > > > > Is it right that diffpairs are always treated as just single tracks > > > > now? If I want to write a script or piece of code to change diffpair > > > > width or gap, what idea should I use? > > > > I think about finding all coupled lengths of some differential pair and > > > > changing the gap on all of coupled lengths and don't touch it if it is > > > > uncoupled... Or maybe shift a bit (by gap/2 difference for each side) > > > > > > > > On Tue, 22 Sep 2020 at 22:23, Kliment (Future Bits) <klim...@0xfb.com> > > > > wrote: > > > > > Having just routed a board with 56 diffpairs I have an idea about > > > > > number 4: > > > > > > > > > > I think we should treat diffpairs as single traces when routing and > > > > > when > > > > > using the pns functionality to move them around. The trace should have > > > > > the thickness of 2x dpair trace width + 1x dpair trace gap, and have a > > > > > clearance of dpair clearance. It should behave as such a trace to the > > > > > pns and revert back to being a diffpair when shoving/pns manipulation > > > > > is > > > > > done. This way dragging, rerouting, and shoving diffpairs works as > > > > > expected - it maintains the diffpairness of the pair. Length > > > > > adjustment > > > > > works just as well on a single trace, and places where the pair splits > > > > > up or has a skew tune can remain locked while the trace is being > > > > > manipulated. This requires minimal change to the pns (we just feed it > > > > > different data) to work, and would dramatically improve the usability > > > > > of > > > > > diffpairs because all the lovely stuff we can do to traces now will be > > > > > available to diffpairs without breakage. We still need the diffpair > > > > > routing logic for vias and for starting/ending pairs, but we have > > > > > that now. > > > > > > > > > > On 22.09.20 21:11, Tomasz Wlostowski wrote: > > > > > > My 5 quick cents: > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) tool to visualize nets lengths (similar to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://github.com/MitjaNemec/Kicad_action_plugins#length-stats > > > > > > > ). I > > > > > > > want to make a gui where you can define what nets you want to > > > > > > > see > > > > > > > altogether. And it should show you length on each layer and > > > > > > > summary. > > > > > > > And vias as well. > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Same stuff for length between 2 objects (for example via > > > > > > and pad > > > > > > > for T-topology) similar to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://github.com/MitjaNemec/Kicad_action_plugins#pad2pad-track-distance. > > > > > > New DRC will take care of that (checking length between arbitrary > > > > > > endpoints as well as reporting constrained length traces/diff > > > > > > pairs). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) some tool to define and automatically change tracks length > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > different layers (to match target impedance) > > > > > > Did you mean per-layer width/gap constraints? abs(Impedance) is not > > > > > > related (at least not so simply) to trace lengths. We already have > > > > > > length tuner tool, with the V6 design rule system it will be able to > > > > > > pick length constraints from board design rules instead of > > > > > > hand-typed > > > > > > values. > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4) Tool to work with differential pairs. > > > > > > We didn't plan implementing such a tool. Beware that even if it > > > > > > happens, > > > > > > applying more than cosmetic changes to the routing globally will > > > > > > likely > > > > > > ruin your board so badly you'll spend rest of the day cleaning it > > > > > > up... > > > > > > > > > > > > Tom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > > > > > > Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net > > > > > > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > > > > > > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > > > > > Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net > > > > > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > > > > > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > > > > Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net > > > > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > > > > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > > > Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net > > > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > > > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > > Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net > > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp _______________________________________________ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
