Mythic Beasts came back, message below. TL;DR - they can preserve the archive links, but only if we move to MM3.
They want some sizings before they do a price, I'll gather the info they need shortly. -- We can preserve URLs, but only by generating a list of redirects to a Mailman 3 archive. Unfortunately, we can't provide Mailman 2 hosting because it relies on Python 2 which is no longer supported in Debian (or any other mainstream OS). Mailman 3 is a complete rewrite of Mailman 2, and although it addresses some of the shortcomings in Mailman 2, it is quite different to use, and I would recommend doing some evaluation of it before committing to a migration of a list of this size and history. -- On Wed, Mar 25, 2026, at 10:58 PM, Paul Poulain via Koha-devel wrote: > Hello Simon, > > We had a (small group) discussion yesterday at the hackfest, and some more > this morning (whole group). The consensus is that, as long as we can search > in the archive, it's not a problem to have a URL change for the archive. > > So we propose to move to mailmanlists.net = easy, already paid & very cheap > (50€/year), no maintenance effort. > > The topic mailman2 > mailman3 will be addressed later, but it's a good point. > Seems that mailmanlists.net can do that for us > [https://www.mailmanlists.net/en/faq/02], it will change archive URLs as well > so maybe we should move to mailman3 asap, to avoid archive links being broken > again in a couple of months. > > QUESTION to the list : does anyone have experience with mailman3 ? Any > feedback ? What does change for users ? > > Le 25/03/2026 à 00:35, Simon Blake via Koha-devel a écrit : >> Random acts of science, grepping around in the current archive, there have >> been 8026 messages to the Koha list since January 2020, of those, 56 >> reference other messages in the archive in the body of the message. So a >> bit less than 1% of messages in the archive contain links to other messages >> in the archive that will 404 if we move to mailmanlists.net. >> >> It did occur to me that if it's OK to abandon the archive structure, then >> perhaps it makes sense to upgrade to mailman 3 at the same time? Following >> that line of thinking, I found this: >> >> https://www.mythic-beasts.com/blog/2024/09/02/mailman-list-archive-link-preservation/ >> >> mostly that post is about the code they wrote to preserve archives, but has >> a note at the bottom that they do mailman hosting. If they can do Koha a >> mailman3 list with the mailman2 archive preserved, then that would be a >> pretty good outcome. I've dropped them a line to find out what they can do >> and how much, I shall report back. >> >> Also, I just realised that I forgot to remove the firewall rule that refused >> SMTP connections when I migrated the Koha list back to the old server, which >> is why there hasn't been a message to the list since March 18. While that >> was a dumb move on my part (apologies!), the silver lining is that it does >> mean that if the consensus is to move back to mailmanlists.net, then I can >> do that without getting them to reimport the list (ie I just change the DNS >> entries back to point at mailmanlists.net and delivery will restart). >> >> Leaving the server blocking SMTP does, though, add some time pressure - in >> that sending servers will start dropping messages as undeliverable after >> 10-14 days, so we need to make a decision one way or the other in the next >> 36 hours. So I propose: >> • I'll give Mythic Beasts 24 hours to respond, if they seem viable, I'll >> report that back here, and I'll unblock the firewall to the current server >> so that the lists starts working again. >> • If Indranil wants to take over lists.katipo.co.nz and move it to a VM, >> then that needs to start happening immediately - that is, today. I'm happy >> to tar up the current VM and generally help with the move, I just need a >> target. >> • If neither of the above come to pass, then 24 hours from now I'll point >> the DNS back to mailmanlists.net >> >> Cheers >> Simon >> >> On Sun, Mar 22, 2026, at 6:43 AM, Katrin Fischer via Koha-devel wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> while Indranil's offer is very generous, I agree with Paul that as long as >>> the archive is made searchable again the broken links might be something we >>> could live with. I see an advantage in having one less thing to worry about >>> maintaining. >>> >>> It will also be good to get more opinions at the hackfest. >>> >>> Katrin >>> >>> On 20.03.26 11:11, Paul Poulain via Koha-devel wrote: >>>> No-one has an opinion ? >>>> >>>> Mine is that prefer to move to mailmanlists.net and loose the archive >>>> links: >>>> >>>> • archive is still here, it will be indexed by bots >>>> • there are not so many critical backlinks >>>> • no-one else is willing to manage a server, mailmanlists.net cost >>>> 40€/year, nothing can beat it ! >>>> The topic is added to nextweek hackfest (and it includes >>>> *@lists.koha-community.org) >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> >>>> Le 19/03/2026 à 05:49, Simon Blake a écrit : >>>>> Feedback from mailmanlists.net is that the the url changes are an >>>>> expected side effect of the way they import the existing list - they >>>>> regenerate the archive from scratch from the .mbox file, so they assert >>>>> there is nothing they can do to ensure archive links continue to work. >>>>> This feels a little arbitrary - the archive is just a tree of HTML in the >>>>> filesystem, there's no obvious reason it could't be copied from the old >>>>> system (as you'd do if you were moving from one server to another). >>>>> >>>>> So all opinons welcome. The current server goes away at the end of the >>>>> month, Koha can >>>>> • continue with maIlmanlists.net and accept the link breakage >>>>> • move/recreate the vm somewhere else, with intact archive >>>>> • something else ? >>>>> Cheers >>>>> Simon >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Mar 19, 2026, at 1:18 PM, Simon Blake via Koha-devel wrote: >>>>>> After mulling that choice for a few minutes, I concluded that reverting >>>>>> is the prudent approach - losing subscription changes and archives of >>>>>> messages from the past 12 hours is better than invalidating every >>>>>> external link into the archive. >>>>>> >>>>>> So I've reverted the DNS back to the old server while we sort this out. >>>>>> Pathing in to archives will fix itself as DNS caches time out. >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers >>>>>> Simon >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Mar 19, 2026, at 12:51 PM, Simon Blake via Koha-devel wrote: >>>>>>> That's a fine question, good spotting! The new server is a managed >>>>>>> service (on mailmanlists.net), so we don't get direct access to it. >>>>>>> That said, even if we did, a redirect would be kind of difficult, as >>>>>>> it's not just the path - the endpoint HTML file names in the archive >>>>>>> have also changed (ie >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://oldlists.katipo.co.nz/public/koha/2025-February/061229.html >>>>>>> >>>>>>> has become >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://lists.katipo.co.nz/pipermail/koha/2025-February/056688.html >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Since Paul is likely asleep, I've contacted the support folks at >>>>>>> mailmanlists.net to see what they can do (they're in Sydney NSW). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Comparing the two archives, it looks like there hasn't been a posting >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Question for you folks, if MML.net come back and say "nothing we can >>>>>>> do, suck it up cupcake", then what is the feeling of the koha project >>>>>>> to that? I can revert the DNS changes back to the old server, which >>>>>>> will obviously fix all the broken links, but will drop any messages >>>>>>> sent to the list since the change from the old archive (currently only >>>>>>> the last two messages on >>>>>>> https://lists.katipo.co.nz/pipermail/koha/2026-March/date.html#start ) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers >>>>>>> Simon >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 19, 2026, at 11:41 AM, David Cook via Koha-devel wrote: >>>>>>>> By the way, it looks like a lot of old links are broken now like >>>>>>>> https://lists.katipo.co.nz/public/koha/2025-February/061229.html >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Are there plans to do a redirect? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> David Cook >>>>>>>> Senior Software Engineer >>>>>>>> Prosentient Systems >>>>>>>> Suite 7.03 >>>>>>>> 6a Glen St >>>>>>>> Milsons Point NSW 2061 >>>>>>>> Australia >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Office: 02 9212 0899 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: Koha-devel <[email protected]> On >>>>>>>> Behalf Of Paul Poulain via Koha-devel >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 18 March 2026 7:29 PM >>>>>>>> To: koha-devel <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> Subject: [Koha-devel] koha mailing list moved, who is admin ? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello all, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha has been moved >>>>>>>> from a katipo server to mailmanlists.net provider (BibLibre paying the >>>>>>>> bill). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I have forwarded the admin password to @rangi (Chris C.) , I have it >>>>>>>> too. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> @RACHEL = do you want to still be admin ? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> @KOHA-DEVEL = anyone else should be ? Something to be >>>>>>>> discussed/decided during the next general meeting ? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Note that, next week during the hackfest, we may move >>>>>>>> @lists.koha-community.org lists to this provider as well. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Paul Poulain, Associé-gérant / CEO >>>>>>>> BibLibre, Services et logiciels libres pour votre bibliothèque >>>>>>>> BibLibre, Open Source software and services for your library >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Koha-devel mailing list >>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>> https://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel >>>>>>>> website : https://www.koha-community.org/ >>>>>>>> git : https://git.koha-community.org/ >>>>>>>> bugs : https://bugs.koha-community.org/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Koha-devel mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> https://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel >>>>>>> website : https://www.koha-community.org/ >>>>>>> git : https://git.koha-community.org/ >>>>>>> bugs : https://bugs.koha-community.org/ >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Koha-devel mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> https://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel >>>>>> website : https://www.koha-community.org/ >>>>>> git : https://git.koha-community.org/ >>>>>> bugs : https://bugs.koha-community.org/ >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> Paul Poulain, Associé-gérant / CEO >>>> BibLibre, Services et logiciels libres pour votre bibliothèque >>>> BibLibre, Open Source software and services for your library >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Koha-devel mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> https://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel >>>> website : https://www.koha-community.org/ >>>> git : https://git.koha-community.org/ >>>> bugs : https://bugs.koha-community.org/ >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Koha-devel mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel >>> website : https://www.koha-community.org/ >>> git : https://git.koha-community.org/ >>> bugs : https://bugs.koha-community.org/ >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Koha-devel mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel >> website : https://www.koha-community.org/ >> git : https://git.koha-community.org/ >> bugs : https://bugs.koha-community.org/ > -- > Paul Poulain, Associé-gérant / CEO > BibLibre, Services et logiciels libres pour votre bibliothèque > BibLibre, Open Source software and services for your library > _______________________________________________ > Koha-devel mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel > website : https://www.koha-community.org/ > git : https://git.koha-community.org/ > bugs : https://bugs.koha-community.org/ >
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