[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> How lucky we are to benefit from the theoretical guidance of such a
> learned
> Marxist as "Klo Mckinsey" -- whoever he is!
My reply,
He is the one with a website at: http://www.geocities.com/klomckin/
>
> Perhaps Klo would now be so kind as to enlighten us as to what these
> discussions [LENIN DENOUNCES TROTSKY by Klo Mckinsey [10 POSTINGS] over twenty
> years were actually about?
My reply,
They were about a wide range of topics and Lenin was showing how
Trotsky erred in regard to each.
And exactly what
> the respective
> positions of Lenin, Trotsky, and, while we're at it, all the other
> participants in the discussions, were? That way, we can all enjoy the
> pleasures of
> hindsight along with him.
My reply,
Hindsight is how you learn. That is why people study history. Those
who don't know history are doomed to repeat it. Through hindsight we
learn that Trotsky erred grievously on many occasions and that is why
his philosophy should not be followed today. Lenin knew it and exposed
it for what it was.
>
> Or doesn't it matter what the issues were? Perhaps all you need
> nowadays to
> be a great theoretician is to type the names Lenin and Trotsky into a
> search
> engine, and cut and paste all the bits where Lenin appears to have
> disagreed
> with Trotsky?
My reply,
People need only read the context of the quotes to see that they are
quite valid and highly illuminating. For someone to claim "Lenin
appears to have disagreed with Trotsky" is little short of ludicrous.
Lenin was at loggerheads with Trotsky far more than he ever disagreed
with Stalin.
>
> Come off it, Klo! Any idiot can play that game. If we're going to
> judge the
> issues that way, then of far greater significance is Lenin's
> long-suppressed
> testament to the Party Congress, in which he denounced Stalin and
> demanded his
> immediate removal, and supported Trotsky on all the issues facing the
> party.
My reply,
Your knowledge of history is as erroneous as your ideological orientation.
First, Lenin's testament was read to the Central Committee shortly
after Lenin's demise and had you done your homework by reading writers
such as the following, who are by no means supporters of Stalin, you
would be aware of that fact.
"There is the currently popular story that Lenin's Testament was never
discussed at a party congress and that, if it had been, Stalinism could
have been prevented. In fact, the document was considered by the Party
Central Committee shortly after Lenin's death and again in a closed
session at the congress in 1927. At that time, Pravda published a
Stalin speech which included excerpts from it, including the part in
which Lenin criticized Stalin's rudeness and called for his removal from
the post of General Secretary. It was (like Khrushchev's "Secret
Speech" to the 20th party congress in 1956) not published until
recently. But the congress delegates who heard the Testament consisted
of virtually all key party leaders and even a scattering of common folk
from across the country....
On page 103 by J. Arch Getty in THE STALIN PHENOMENON Edited by Alec
Nove (1993)
"Recalling [at the October 1927 combined meeting] the July-August 1927
plenum, Stalin regretted having dissuaded the comrades from expelling
Trotsky and Zinoviev from the Central Committee immediately. [Stalin
stated] 'Maybe I was being too kind and made a mistake...'
As for dealing with Lenin's 'Letter to the Congress', Stalin gave his
own interpretation:
"It has been shown time and again, and no one is trying to hide
anything, that Lenin's Testament was addressed to the 13th Party
Congress, that it was read out at the congress, that the Congress agreed
unanimously not to publish it because, by the way, Lenin himself did not
want or ask for it to be published."
STALIN TRIUMPH AND TRAGEDY by Dmitri Volkogonov (1988) Page 138
Even your hero, Trotsky, doesn't support you and denies your allegation
of there being a "testament" my friend. The periodical 'Bolshevik' of
September 1925 published the following statement by Trotsky concerning
the alleged "Testament."
"Since becoming ill, Vladimir Ilyich had frequently written proposals,
letters, etc. to the party's leading bodies and its congresses. All
these letters etc. were naturally always delivered to their intended
destinations, and were brought to the attention of the delegates to the
12th and 13th Congresses and always, naturally, had the appropriate
influence on party decisions.... Vladimir Ilyich left no testament, and
the very nature of his relations with the party, as well as the nature
of the party itself, exclude the possibility of any such testament, so
that any talk about concealing or not carrying out a testament is a
malicious invention and is aimed in fact entirely against Vladimir
Ilyich's intention."
STALIN TRIUMPH AND TRAGEDY by Dmitri Volkogonov (1988) Page 138
Second, Lenin never "demanded" that Stalin be removed. Show me where
he "demanded" it. He suggested it. And he did so not because of his
ideology or policies but because he was excessively rude to party
members at times. The party later decided that personal piccadillos was
not a sufficient reason.
Moreover, he never at any time suggested the post be given to Trotsky
so don't even try to imply it was offered.
Third, to claim he supported Trotsky on all issues is absurd. They
clashed repeatedly both before the Revolution and after. Trotsky
disagreed strongly with Lenin's policy regarding the Brest-Litovsk
treaty. In fact, he even defied Lenin and refused to sign it. They
also clashed when it came to the militarization of the trade unions and
the establishment of NEP.
>
> But even that would not enlighten and educate the current generation
> of
> revolutionaries. What matters is to look at the issues, and then use,
> not a
> little red book full of instant recipes, but our own brains in working
> out the
> answers.
My reply,
I have no problem with that approach and when they look at the issues
they will reject Trotsky and Trotskyism.
>
> Klo, please don't insult the intelligence of members of this list
> again.
My reply,
Correction! You already have insulted their intelligence by making
assertions that are not supported historically, a common Trot ploy.
for the cause,
Klo
>
> Roger Silverman
>
> * * * *
>
> In a message dated 22/09/2004 11:22:04 GMT Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> LENIN DENOUNCES TROTSKY by Klo Mckinsey [10 POSTINGS]......etc.,
> etc., etc.
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