----- Original Message -----
From: "Randall Shimizu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Main Discussion List for KPLUG" <[email protected]>
Subject: [sdw2003] Re: Mainframe clarifications Was: VM and hypervisor 
clarifications.......
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 01:00:02 -0800

> 
> I don't come from a mainframe background so thanks for the info.....:))
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Wade Curry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Main Discussion List for KPLUG" <[email protected]>
> Subject: Mainframe clarifications Was: VM and hypervisor      
> clarifications.......
> Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 21:15:10 -0700
> 
> >
> > Randall Shimizu([EMAIL PROTECTED])@Sat, Oct 22, 2005 at 
> > 02:54:19PM -0800:
> > > There seemed to be a lot of confusion regarding the functiona
> > > definiton of a hypervisor so I will elucidate:
> > >
> > > Hypervisor: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypervisor )A
> > > hypervisors main function is manage different VM's. Hypersvisors
> > > is also responsible for the instantiation and termination of a
> > > VM. Now there is both a software and hardware based hypervisor.
> > > VMware and IBM's DLPAR (Dynamic logical partitioning) technoogy
> > > are both of this iteration. The hardware based hypervisor is it's
> > > own OS. This allows the system to remain up even if the other
> > > VM's crash. IBM"s  has had hardware hypervisors ever since the
> > > introduction of S/390.
> >
> > I had to read that a couple of times.  The last statement is
> > misleading. S/390 is the previous line of mainframe systems from
> > IBM. That is, I think, the first version that could create LPARs.
> 
> I believe that hardware hypervisors were introduced after the 
> introduction of the S/390's.
> > That is, the hardware could be partitioned up to 15(?) ways.  The
> > technology that allows that is called: PR/SM  (Processor
> > Resource/System Manager).  It is tempting to simply say that this
> > is just a harware hypervisor by another name, but I don't think
> > that is accurate because the main reason for its existence is to
> > isolate the hardware resources.
> The purpose is isolate VM and OS resources, although hardware is 
> seperated virtually.
> So, what you have is a very
> > strictly divided system.  Clearly there is some system
> > virtualisation going on, but I don't think that's all there is to a
> > hypervisor.
> >
> > I'm not sure why you would think that this hardware capability
> > constitutes its own OS.
> 
> Well on VMWare's ESX you are loading actual OS on the ESX card 
> itself, which acts as the host OS.
> >
> > >
> > > DLPAR is highly advance load balancing VM technology on IBM's
> > > Power and PPC platforms. DLPAR has the ability start or end new
> > > VM's as the systems requirements is changing. VM technoogy is 
> > not > a new technology at least for IBM Z-Series.
> > > IBM"s MVS (Multiple Virtual Systems) refers to multiple VM's
> > > running multiple instances of S/390.
> 
> 
> >
> > MVS *really* stands for "Multiple Virtual Storage".  The name
> > existed before LPAR functionality, and was first used to refer to
> > OS/370.  The S/360 was able to address a whopping 16MB of central
> > storage (memory, in mainframe jargon).  The OS/370 saw that
> > increase to 64MB, but that was only the half of it.  It also included
> > a hardware feature that translated the address space for each of
> > the programs that were running (there was a limit of 15 concurrent
> > programs).  Each running program actually was swapped out to DASD
> > (hard disk) and each one "thought" it had the run of "all 16 MB",
> > because it had its own addressable virtual storage.  Hence the
> > name.
> >
> > S/390 refers to hardware, while OS/390 refers to one of the IBM
> > operating systems that runs on it.  The current hardware is called
> > z/Series, and the OS is z/OS (all 64-bit, and still called MVS most
> > of the time).  The other mainframe OS that hasn't been mentioned is
> > z/VM.  That one has a hypervisor.
> >
> > >                                      But beyond all this the
> > > S/390 can run simultaneous parallel trancations
> >
> > I'm not sure what you're getting at here.  It sounds like you're
> > talking about multitasking.  You don't need a parallel sysplex for
> > that.
> >
> > >                                                 (IBM parallel
> > > sysplex: allows for clustered Z-series boxes)

With parallel sysplex a transaction is simultaneously on different machines. So 
you are guarunteed that the transaction will be completed 

> >
> > They can be kind of like clusters.  Often times they are not like
> > clusters so much.  For example, all the LPARs I work on are part of
> > some sysplex, but they remain mostly distinct.  LPARs share the
> > storage complex, and they can share processor cycles, too.
> > Sometimes you'll see one LPAR usng 125% of it's processor cycles.
> > This is because another LPAR in the sysplex gave some up for it to
> > use.  As far as I know, in clusters, you'd usually expect
> > _processes_ to be shared rather than cpu cycles, so this is
> > somewhat different. I am pretty sure this is done at a couple of
> > different levels.  Part of it may be done by JES2 (system software
> > that controls the availability of resources and job execution--This
> > is the software that you are talking to when you write JCL).
> >
> > >                                               as well with full
> > > rollback cability.
> >
> > Back to transactions.  This is important in some areas of MVS
> > software, but it isn't everywhere.  IMS and CICS are two different
> > (ubiquitous) ways to provide an application framework and the
> > ability to connect.  I'm more familiar with IMS, and it does have
> > checkpointing plus copious logging of the transactions and all the
> > resources and datasets (files) that were used.
> >
> > >                     So in other words a enterprise has not only
> > > system fault tolerance, but application fault tolerance as well.
> > > So it becomes clearer why so many forturne 500 enterprises still
> > > run mainframes.
> >
> 
> Well for one thing  mainframes can deliver up to 7 9's of 
> reliability. IBM's line holds record for the longest uptime of any 
> system. I heard awhile back that one S/390 was up for almost 7 
> years I believe. The x86 platform can still only deliver 5 9's of 
> reliability.... It's getting much better, but there is still system 
> throughput issues that is unresolved..
> 
> > Mainframes are much more popular than is widely known outside big
> > business.  I don't think stability is the main reason for the
> > businesses' heavy reliance on them, though (although it is a
> > factor).  I believe it has to do with the fact mainframes have
> > specific features that "pointy-hairs" and "bean-counters" love.
> >
> > Nearly every facet of mainframe system software is extremly
> > modular, configurable, and customizable.  Also, everything is
> > logged.  You think you have seen lots of logs in /var/log?  You
> > ain't seen nothing.  Further, you can configure exactly what
> > processes/jobs get what resources first at several levels.  In a
> > business where they are continually scrutinizing costs (licensing
> > for each LPAR, CPU cycles, DASD disk space, ad nauseam) the
> > logging, configurability and control is essential.
> >
> > MVS mainframes have a menu-driven user interface, a reliance on
> > JCL, and a much less flexible end-user environment overall.  On the
> > other hand, *nix shines in its flexibility and user interface, IMO.
> > It just wasn't developed with business in mind.  Even the clusters
> > that are being built now seem to me to be much more directed at
> > research than business.  The software that businesses rely on
> > strongly to run their mainframes and applications are either just
> > getting started, or are non-existent in the unix world.
> >
> > Just for the sake of completeness, z/VM (which I am not familiar
> > with) started out as a skunk works project at IBM, and wasn't
> > released until long after MVS.  Besides being used as a regular OS,
> > it provides a hypervisor and virtual machine capabilities in
> > addition to what the hardware offers.  It is the OS that is used
> > when people set up linux server farms on a mainframe.  It is also
> > generally considered to be less stable than MVS by the folks I work
> > with.  I can't tell if that is a justifiable bias, or not.
> >
> > I hope that was clear, and interesting to at least one other
> > person ;)
> >
> > Wade Curry
> > syntaxman
> >
> >
> > --
> > [email protected]
> > http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-list
> 
> 
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