On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 11:56 PM, RB W <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 2:26 AM, Gabriel Sechan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > ---------------------------------------- > > > Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 01:37:19 -0400 > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > Subject: Re: Schooling funding debate ... again (Was Re: Wifi leeches > (Was: Multiple NAT layers)) > > > > > > > > On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 1:03 AM, Gabriel Sechan wrote: > > >> > > >> Stopped reading here. Sex education has literature to prove it > works, while abstinence only education has studies shown it doesn't. And the > complete lack of knowledge you have on science just invalidated any opinions > you have on this topic. > > >> > > >> > > >> Gabe > > > > > > Funny how inquisition thinking can come from the most unexpected > places... > > > > > > Whatever happened to, "while I disagree with your opinion I will > > > defend to the death your right to hold your opinion". > > > > > > 40 years ago that's what I was brought up on as the brilliance and > > > meaning of the American experience and the reason so much blood was > > > required to be shed in far away places like Iwo Jima and Normandy and > > > why events like Midway were so pivotal in the history of freedom. > > > > > > Defending Freedom appears to be cyclic and even the best of times only > > > delays the inevitable conflict to preserve Freedom. > > > > > You can hold whatever opinion you want. The problem comes when your > > actions based on them effect other people. You can believe abortion > > is wrong all you want, but you can't shoot an abortion doctor. You > > can believe evolution is wrong all you want, or believe that sex education > > is bad. That doesn't mean you have a right to inflict those beliefs on > > other's children.
I agree to here. > It doesn't even give you a right to inflict it on your children- children > are not chattels. Then you , Gabe, go over the line. > > Gabe Nor are children chattels of the state. > Why is it so hard for you to understand that in the context of private > education and what is taught in the home people are and will remain to > be free to teach contrary to those very things you seem to think > should be state enforced correctness thinking? What he says Gabe. > Why is it so difficult > to understand that many people have a set of ideas about what is true > that obviously differ from yours AND they have the right to organize > and form educational associations to affect those ideas? Say it brother. > Like I keep hinting at, the only thing further required to make this > an ugly repeat of history is for the state to decide it should force > certain ideas to not be promoted by use of force. If you are not > willing to go that far then this can remain America where we > respectfully disagree... Amen. While I see the state as the "provider of last resort" for many things, including civil rights, albeit the state has often only played this role under duress, I also realize that the historical reality is that the state is the most likely usurper of freedom. There lies the basic contradiction that we must deal with. > rb (I don't think secular radicalism is going to respect that line in > the sand) w I consider myself a secular radical, but do respect that line. It is when you bring your, Rodney, views to public policy to be imposed beyond your family that I say, "You must provide a reason for me to accept your policy based on some rational other than your faith." It is when you seek to make public policy of your private (religious or other) beliefs that I demand you be subjected to a more abstract logic. But in the privacy of your home I do beleive the state has no place. BobLQ Gabe may consider the home a place that the state can lightly invade. I do not. Only when the physical safety of the children is at issue do I see reasons of state overwhelming the family's rights. But once those children leave the family though they are fair targets for reason and unreason in all of its manifest variants. BobLQ -- [email protected] http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-list
