On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 4:20 PM, Harald Sitter <[email protected]>wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 2:42 PM, Aleix Pol <[email protected]> wrote: > > On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 1:03 PM, Jonathan Riddell <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> > >> On Tue, Jan 07, 2014 at 02:25:27PM -0800, Scarlett Clark wrote: > >> > Is this the default package manager? Or Muon? > >> > > >> > I need all ways to bring this up eg.. command line. I have so far > in > >> > a > >> > search from KickOff and KickOff->Programs->Muon Discover > >> > >> We have both Muon and Muon Discover installed by default. Arguably this > >> is application duplication and very un-ubuntu. > >> > >> Does anyone have an opinion of whether Muon Discover is mature enough to > >> stand along and for Muon to be removed from the images? > >> > >> You can access it by KickOff -> Computer -> Software Centre too which > I'd > >> expect to be the primary method. > >> > >> Jonathan > >> > >> -- > >> kubuntu-devel mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > >> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-devel > > > > > > I would say that the decision is not really about maturity but about user > > target. I don't think an end-user should understand all the semantics > that > > Muon Package Manager exposes. If a user has the knowledge to use Muon PM > he > > has the knowledge to install it from Discover or even apt-get. > > Indeed. The argument never was that software center or discover > weren't mature enough, but that they do not deal in packages. They > deal in applications (read: in things that have a desktop file). So if > you want or need to install a package (say 'bzip2') you won't be able > to do that with discover because of the way it is designed. > > Personally I always found this argument silly because it implies that > a user knows the difference between Muon and Muon Discover and will > choose the correct tool for the job at hand <- so very very very > unlikely... > > Really there are three groups of people we have to consider: > a) the user who only wants to installation an application and will not > ever want to install a package (by himself, support cases excluded > becasue those usually will offer concrete apt-get commands anyway) > b) the user who perhaps could be called a sysadmin and wants to > explicitly manage packages, but likes to do it in a GUI > c) the user who likes direct control but feels that a GUI slows him down > > And here is the thing. > A user of group a) won't be able to graps the concept of either b) or > c) and have a very hard time trying to manage 'apps'. > A user of group b) will be able to deal with the usage paradigm of a) > but might not be able to do what c) does. > A user of group c) will be able to do manage 'apps' and 'packages' given a > gui. > > Looking at the presented use cases there is no reason why muon (the > package manager) needs to be part of the default install. You could > technically even remove apt-get itself. Because b) will be able to use > muon-discover to install muon and c) will be able to use muon-discover > to install muon to install apt-get. Of course latter is not very > convenient so one can make an argument for keeping apt-get regardless > (plus I doubt you could remove it anyway ;)) > > Long story short: if someone wants a gui package manger, they can > manually install muon via discover or apt-get, absolutely no reason > why we'd need it in the default install. > > HS > > -- > kubuntu-devel mailing list > [email protected] > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-devel > FWIW, bzip should probably be installable from Discover, since it's an end-user application. What the user won't be able to find in discover is libbz2. Arguably, -dev packages should be available in discover as well. Aleix
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