On Fri, Jan 10, 2014 at 11:52 PM, Valorie Zimmerman <[email protected]> wrote: > Thanks for your gentle reminders to file bugs, Harald. > > On Fri, Jan 10, 2014 at 9:06 AM, Harald Sitter <[email protected]> > wrote: >> On Fri, Jan 10, 2014 at 5:58 PM, Volkan Gezer <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>> >>>>> Mature enough? It does not seem so to me. >>>> >>> >>> +1 >>> >>> Some problems I experience with Discover: >>> >>> * Closing it before POPcon result are shown in the main window causes >>> sigfault sometimes. >>> * Using back arrow after making a search either freezes or displays >>> all installed applications. >>> * Ratings does not work. (we cannot rate etc) >>> >>> >>> My question is why did we remove Muon Installer? It was ok IMO. >> >> Because apparently discover only got buggy in the last 48 hours. Very >> curious. > > However, I see your comments and feedback on > https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=329800 and that seems the bug > that bites me. > > Searching bugs.kde.org for "muon discover" reveals lots of crashes and > freezes.
All software has bugs, and the volume of reports for discover in particular is not actually overwhelming. So since the only hard metric we have right now (to be changed starting with 14.04) are bug reports I have to say that all the data suggests discover has at least adequate quality. That is not to say that it did not have show stoppers, but I think just about all of them have been resolved in like a week after reporting. And that is the crucial thing really, unless crashes and the likes are vigorously reported as bugs it is nigh impossible to label a defect as high impact and thus worthy of asap handling. That sounds a bit silly but bear in mind that we are working with limited resources (<=24h/person/day) and therefore I personally do not consider it practical or efficient to have developers treat every crash as super important or troll the internet to find out whether a crash/bug has gotten sufficient whining on forums etc. to be considered for immediate fixing. So at least I hold on to the metrics I've got, which are bug reports and the amount of attention a bug gets (amount of incoming duplicates, amount of comments and so forth). If there is no indication that a bug will/does impact a sizable number of people or has other factors that would qualify it as important, it does not get the attention that it needs which results in unhappy people and unhappy comments about the software and finally in unhappy developers because people do not like their software. It's a poison trap that can easily be averted by reporting bugs and in general constructive discourse about issues. Every KDE application has a built-in functionality to do just that; in the menubar -> Help -> Report Bug... but if it is not used, all is vain. Why do the discover comments bug me so much you may ask yourself and the answer is very simply that it most certainly has not suddenly gotten quality issues in the past week. They have been there all along, and no one bothered to do anything about them... and yes, reporting a bug is very much doing something about it. What transpired was: A transition from muon-installer to muon-discover was publically targeted for 13.10 [1]. In fact I explicitly pushed for early implementation of the necessary changes to have enough time for testing *before* feature freeze so we could have reverted back to muon-installer well before the final release of 13.10. Due to lack of quality control measures (being addressed progressively since then) and lack of actual feedback of any kind before the final, less than adequate quality was released and many tears were shed once we noticed. We then fired numerous updates to resolve the situation [2][3][4]. This should not have happened. It just shouldn't have. There was no reason for this to happen. Early september JR sent a mail about the muon quality saying that all was nice and dandy - no one raised concerns. And in november, *after* release, people then start to complain? Why? I absolutely do not understand this. If people do not feel the need to do pre-release testing, then we might as well stop doing the pre-release nonsense, and instead spend our last bit of remaining sanity on manually executing tedious test plans to ensure the software we ship is actually release quality. Usually I would not care about this post-release-issue-creep-nonsense (as can be observed on web forums every time after a final release has come out, as if we had developed the thing in secret and now everyone is surprised that there are issues that could not possibly have been catched before release). But when it happens on the mailing list that calls itself kubuntu-devel I do take personal offense. I do believe everyone here has an interest in producing a high quality product and to that end should do what needs to be done (e.g. take the pre-release for a test drive and report bugs at least once in the 6 months we spend preparing a new version). That did not happen so now you get deal with a sad pandalogger. tldr: always report bugs; for everything; if the reports don't get attention: complain on this here mailing list; if complaining doesn't help: tell apachelogger. [1] https://trello.com/c/DplmVapI [2] https://trello.com/c/CSivV2uq [3] https://trello.com/c/W2OQ339e [4] https://trello.com/c/EUHfjxSC HS -- kubuntu-devel mailing list [email protected] Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-devel
