> > What happens if Host A wants to reach Host C, homed off of PE-3, but
> > PE-3 does not know about Host C because it's never participated in
> > ARP?  Do I need to relay the ARP from PE-3 to the other PEs for the VPN?

I would say - No, since that would equate to flooding layer 2 frames in an 
L3VPN environment.

The traffic to an unknown host should be eventually dropped (closer to the 
source point) in any L3 environment, IMO.

Cheers,
Rajiv


> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
> Of Xuxiaohu
> Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2013 9:11 PM
> To: Eric Osborne (eosborne); L3VPN
> Cc: [email protected]
> Subject: re: [nvo3] Why not use L3VPN for data center interconnect?//re:
> Request a WG adoption poll for draft-xu-virtual-subnet-10
> 
> Hi Eric,
> 
> Thanks for your comments. Please see my reply inline.
> 
> > -----邮件原件-----
> > 发件人: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] 代表 Eric
> > Osborne (eosborne)
> > 发送时间: 2013年7月2日 20:07
> > 收件人: Xuxiaohu; L3VPN
> > 抄送: [email protected]
> > 主题: Re: [nvo3] Why not use L3VPN for data center interconnect?//re:
> > Request a WG adoption poll for draft-xu-virtual-subnet-10
> >
> > Hi Xiaohu-
> >
> >   Let me first say that I agree that L3 is the way things should be
> > built.  But
> 
> That's great.
> 
> > I'm not sure that your draft adds much to existing methods, and it
> > seems to make a number of assumptions.
> >
> >    "PE routers (i.e.,
> >    PE-1 and PE-2) which are used for interconnecting these two data
> >    centers create host routes for their local CE hosts respectively and
> >    then advertise them via L3VPN signaling.... In fact, such subnet is a
> virtual
> >    subnet which is emulated by using host routes."
> >
> >
> > So if I have a /24 I will end up with (up to) 253 host addresses in the
> network?
> 
> Yes.
> 
> > How does a PE know which hosts exist?  Does it wait until it sees
> > local ARP in order to determine that there is a valid /32?
> 
> ARP is just one possible approach for CE host discovery. You can also use
> other approaches (e.g., an orchestration system) to fill this goal.
> 
> > What happens if Host A wants to reach Host C, homed off of PE-3, but
> > PE-3 does not know about Host C because it's never participated in
> > ARP?  Do I need to relay the ARP from PE-3 to the other PEs for the VPN?
> 
> The basic assumption of this draft is that local PE routers could timely
> discover their own local CE hosts through a given approach. However, the
> approach you proposed may be worthwhile to be considered in this draft.
> 
> > What scale benefits are there if I have to advertise all the host
> > routes on my local portion of the subnet?  Specifically, can you
> > compare the scale benefits of advertising a bunch of /32s to, say,
> > EVPN, where MAC addresses are basically
> > /48 host routes?
> 
> Almost the same from the forwarding table size perspective. And both can
> suppress the unknown uncast flooding. However, from the maturity degree
> of technology and product and the operation experience perspectives,
> L3VPN is absolutely a better choice, IMHO.
> 
> > In section 3.6.1:
> >
> > ---
> > the ingress PE router will forward the packet to the
> >       RR according to one of the VP routes learnt from the RR, which in
> >       turn forwards the packet to the relevant egress PE router
> >       according to the host route learnt from that egress PE router.
> > ---
> >
> > This makes me nervous, as you've now made a Route Reflector (often a
> > box with lots of CPU and memory but not necessarily much forwarding
> > throughput) into basically a Broadcast/Unknown Multicast server.
> 
> As mentioned just after the text you quoted,
> 
>      "... Note that in the case where the RR is
>       not available for transferring L3VPN traffic between PE routers
>       for some reason (e.g., the RR is implemented on a server, rather
>       than a router), the APR function could actually be performed by a
>       given PE router other than the RR as long as that PE router has
>       installed all host routes belonging to the virtual subnet into its
>       FIB."
> 
> > The whole of Section 3.6 feels a little like LISP or NHRP or
> > something.  If this is really what you're after you may want to look
> > at how they approached this problem and show what's different about
> your solution.
> 
> Your observation is correct. To some extent, LISP can be looked as another
> type of L3VPN approach. Furthermore, LISP-mobility is another type of host
> route based subnet extension approach just like the one defined in this
> draft. It's up to the cloud providers to make a choice between L3VPN and
> LISP. BTW, if you were a cloud provider, which one would you choose in
> practice?
> 
> Best regards,
> Xiaohu
> 
> > eric
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf
> > > Of Xuxiaohu
> > > Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2013 2:52 AM
> > > To: L3VPN
> > > Cc: [email protected]
> > > Subject: [nvo3] Why not use L3VPN for data center interconnect?//re:
> > > Request a WG adoption poll for draft-xu-virtual-subnet-10
> > >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > Till now, it seems that too much attention has been paid to the use
> > > of L2VPN for data center interconnect. Although there are still a
> > > few clustering applications which rely on non-IP or non-routable IP
> > > communications (e.g., heartbeat messages between cluster nodes),
> > > more and more cluster vendors are offering clustering applications
> > > based on Layer 3 interconnection. In addition, geographical
> > > high-availability clusters is not a must in many data center interconnect
> cases.
> > >
> > > As L3VPN has many distinct advantages over L2VPN for data center
> > > interconnect such as: scaling forwarding tables of data center
> > > switches, path optimization, unknown unicast and ARP suppression...
> > > why not try to use the proven L3VPN technology for data center
> > > interconnect in the scenario where the limitations as mentioned above
> don't exist?
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > > Xiaohu
> > >
> > > > -----邮件原件-----
> > > > 发件人: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
> > > > 发送时间: 2013年7月1日 21:14
> > > > 收件人: Xuxiaohu
> > > > 抄送: [email protected]; martin.vigoureux@alcatel-
> > > lucent.com;
> > > > L3VPN
> > > > 主题: Re: Request a WG adoption poll for draft-xu-virtual-subnet-10
> > > >
> > > > Hello Xuxiaohu,
> > > >
> > > > Before eventually starting a discussion on the adoption on this
> > > > document, we chairs would like to see more discussion and have the
> > > > feedback from more readers (during the 2 previous meetings, only 5
> > > > to
> > > 10
> > > > people raised their hand when the room was polled on having read
> > > > the document).
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > > -Thomas and Martin,
> > > > l3vpn co-chairs
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 2013-07-01, Xuxiaohu:
> > > > > Hi Thomas and Martin,
> > > > >
> > > > > I haven't received any response from any of you. Hence I resend it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > Xiaohu
> > > > >
> > > > >> -----邮件原件-----
> > > > >> 发件人: Xuxiaohu
> > > > >> 发送时间: 2013年6月20日 15:07
> > > > >> 收件人: '[email protected]'; '[email protected]';
> > > > >> '[email protected]'
> > > > >> 抄送: L3VPN
> > > > >> 主题: Request a WG adoption poll for draft-xu-virtual-subnet-10
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Hi WG co-chairs,
> > > > >>
> > > > >> As mentioned before, this draft
> > > > >> (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-virtual-subnet-10)
> > > > >> describes
> > > how to
> > > > reuse
> > > > >> the proven L3VPN technology to realize subnet extension for
> > > > >> data
> > > center
> > > > >> interconnect, with the aid of many concrete experiments and
> > > verifications.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> We co-authors believe the information contained in this draft
> > > > >> would
> > > be
> > > > valuable
> > > > >> for cloud service providers to evaluate the feasibility of
> > > > >> adopting
> > > the proven
> > > > >> L3VPN technology for data center interconnection (by the way,
> > > > >> some
> > > people
> > > > >> had shown their interests on the scheme described in this draft
> > > when
> > > > visiting
> > > > >> our implementation demo of this scheme at the Bits-N-Bites
> > > > >> event of
> > > > IETF86).
> > > > >> Hence we would like co-chairs to start a WG adoption poll for
> > > > >> this
> > > draft.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Best regards,
> > > > >> Xiaohu (on behalf of all co-authors)
> > > >
> > > >
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