Please look at the VRF table instance in that example. The packet destined
for 2.2.2.x is forwarded according to the default route advertised by PE-3.

Since each PE acts as a default GW, there is no impact to the output of
the trace route for an IP address which is not within the same subnet as
the trace-route originator (IMO, this is the major usage of trace route).
If you just want to try a trace route for an IP address which is within
the same subnet of the trace-route originator, there are just two more
hops (i.e., ingress PE and egress PE) in the output (see below), does it
matter in practice?

<Host_1>tracert 1.1.1.5
traceroute to  1.1.1.5(1.1.1.5), max hops: 30 ,packet length: 40,press
CTRL_C t
o break
1 1.1.1.1 40 ms  40 ms  50 ms
2 1.1.1.1 120 ms  80 ms  110 ms
3 1.1.1.5 140 ms  100 ms  90 ms
<Host_1>    



WH> and this is what I meant with broken since the trace route is
expecting 1 hop iso 3.

On 28/11/13 09:45, "Xuxiaohu" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>
>> -----邮件原件-----
>> 发件人: Henderickx, Wim (Wim) [mailto:[email protected]]
>> 发送时间: 2013年11月28日 15:44
>> 收件人: Xuxiaohu; [email protected]
>> 抄送: [email protected]
>> 主题: Re: 答复: 答复: 答复: 答复: 答复: 答复: 答复: New Version
>> Notification for draft-xu-l3vpn-virtual-subnet-02.txt
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 28/11/13 08:33, "Xuxiaohu" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> 
>> >
>> >
>> >> -----邮件原件-----
>> >> 发件人: Henderickx, Wim (Wim)
>> [mailto:[email protected]]
>> >> 发送时间: 2013年11月28日 14:13
>> >> 收件人: Xuxiaohu; [email protected]
>> >> 抄送: [email protected]
>> >> 主题: Re: 答复: 答复: 答复: 答复: 答复: 答复: New Version Notification
>> for
>> >> draft-xu-l3vpn-virtual-subnet-02.txt
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 28/11/13 04:02, "Xuxiaohu" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >> -----邮件原件-----
>> >> >> 发件人: Henderickx, Wim (Wim)
>> >> [mailto:[email protected]]
>> >> >> 发送时间: 2013年11月28日 1:53
>> >> >> 收件人: Xuxiaohu; [email protected]
>> >> >> 抄送: [email protected]
>> >> >> 主题: Re: 答复: 答复: 答复: 答复: 答复: New Version Notification for
>> >> >> draft-xu-l3vpn-virtual-subnet-02.txt
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On 27/11/13 09:12, "Xuxiaohu" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> -----邮件原件-----
>> >> >> >> 发件人: Henderickx, Wim (Wim)
>> >> >> [mailto:[email protected]]
>> >> >> >> 发送时间: 2013年11月27日 14:14
>> >> >> >> 收件人: Xuxiaohu; [email protected]
>> >> >> >> 抄送: [email protected]
>> >> >> >> 主题: Re: 答复: 答复: 答复: 答复: New Version Notification for
>> >> >> >> draft-xu-l3vpn-virtual-subnet-02.txt
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> You are changing the forwarding plane of a L3 service and as
>> >> >> >>such this is not  implementable in merchant silicon so far. You
>> >> >> >>need a flexible network processor  to do this and I am not sure
>> >> >> >>about the performance implications.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Future merchant silicon could be adapted to support such TTL
>> >> >> >handling requirement as long as Layer3 forwarding for
>> >> >> >intra-subnet traffic is worthwhile in practice. In addition, even
>> >> >> >with the existing L3 forwarding chips which don't support that
>> >> >> >TTL handling requirement, the
>> >> >> >Layer3 overlay could still be applicable to most applications
>> >> >> >except a few ones where TTL is set to 1.
>> >> >> WH> even with what you say you break basic applications like trace
>> >> >> WH> route,
>> >> >
>> >> >No, it will not break the trace-route application. It has been
>> >> >successfully verified in our implementation.
>> >> WH> can you show an output. W/o the TTL handling your hops will be
>> >> incorrect
>> >
>> >
>> >In the example illustrated at Figure 4 of the draft, the trace route
>> >output on Host A is as follows (note that 2.2.2.1 is a vrf interface
>> >address of PE-3):
>> >
>> >[Host_1]tracert 2.2.2.1
>> > traceroute to  2.2.2.1(2.2.2.1), max hops: 30 ,packet length: 40,press
>> >CTRL_C t o break
>> > 1 1.1.1.1 60 ms  50 ms  50 ms
>> > 2 2.2.2.1 90 ms  60 ms  80 ms
>> 
>> WH> figure 4 is addressing 1.1.1.x not 2.2.2.x and the output should be
>> from a intra-subnet
>
>Please look at the VRF table instance in that example. The packet
>destined for 2.2.2.x is forwarded according to the default route
>advertised by PE-3.
>
>Since each PE acts as a default GW, there is no impact to the output of
>the trace route for an IP address which is not within the same subnet as
>the trace-route originator (IMO, this is the major usage of trace route).
>If you just want to try a trace route for an IP address which is within
>the same subnet of the trace-route originator, there are just two more
>hops (i.e., ingress PE and egress PE) in the output (see below), does it
>matter in practice?
>
><Host_1>tracert 1.1.1.5
> traceroute to  1.1.1.5(1.1.1.5), max hops: 30 ,packet length: 40,press
>CTRL_C t
>o break
> 1 1.1.1.1 40 ms  40 ms  50 ms
> 2 1.1.1.1 120 ms  80 ms  110 ms
> 3 1.1.1.5 140 ms  100 ms  90 ms
><Host_1>    
>
>> >> >> etc. SO I don’t want to adopt it at all with such impact on the
>>DP.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> So why I am against this draft is because it has a big impact
>> >> >> >>on the data-plane.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Does EVPN have no impact on the data-plane? Are you against that
>> >> >> >draft as well due to its impact on the data plane?
>> >> >> WH> not in its basic form
>> >> >
>> >> >However, the major selling-point of that technology (i.e.,
>> >> >active-active
>> >> >multi-homing) is lost in its basic form accordingly.
>> >> WH> no its not
>> >
>> >If no change to the existing data plane, how to realize the following
>> >split-horizon function?
>> >
>> >9.3 Split Horizon
>> >
>> >   Consider a CE that is multi-homed to two or more PEs on an Ethernet
>> >   segment ES1 operating in All-Active mode. If the CE sends a
>> >   broadcast, unknown unicast, or multicast (BUM) packet to one of the
>> >   non-DF (Designated Forwarder) PEs, say PE1, then PE1 will forward
>> >   that packet to all or subset of the other PEs in that EVPN instance
>> >   including the DF PE for that Ethernet segment. In this case the DF
>>PE
>> >   that the CE is multi-homed to MUST drop the packet and not forward
>> >   back to the CE. This filtering is referred to as "split horizon"
>> >   filtering in this document.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Sajassi, et al.         Expires January 15, 2014               [Page
>>17]
>> >
>> >INTERNET DRAFT        BGP MPLS Based Ethernet VPN          July 15,
>> 2013
>> >
>> >
>> >   In order to achieve this split horizon function, every BUM packet
>> >   originating from a non-DF PE is encapsulated with an MPLS label that
>> >   identifies the Ethernet segment of origin (i.e. the segment from
>> >   which the frame entered the EVPN network). This label is referred to
>> >   as the ESI label, and MUST be distributed by all PEs when operating
>> >   in All-Active multi-homing mode using the "Ethernet A-D route per
>> 
>> WH> when you use virtual chassis all works naturally and split horizon
>> WH> is
>> handled by the VC.
>> >> >> >> The fundamental difference between the proposals is that you
>> >> >> >>have on egress a  mapping in the label that determines the
>> >> >> >>forwarding behaviour to be applied,  rather than having to check
>> >> >> >>src/dst IP matches + LPM lookups.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Are you still talking about L3 overlay service for intra-subnet
>> >> >>traffic?
>> >> >> WH> I am talking about this draft
>> >> >
>> >> >If you are talking about the Virtual Subnet draft, then your above
>> >> >argument is incorrect. The egress PE would perform IP lookup in the
>> >> >corresponding VRF table.
>> >> WH> I am talking about the fact when proper TTL handling has to be
>> >> applied, you need to determine whether or not to decrement the TTL
>> >>and as  such you end up doing additional lookups to determine this. As
>> >>such you will  impact performance.
>> >
>> >Have you seen performance degradation on your routers once an ACL entry
>> >or uRPF check is enabled on interfaces?
>> 
>> WH> urpf/ACL are handled naturally, but you create a new pipeline and
>> WH> look
>> at the operations you have to do to check the intra/inter-subnet
>>forwarding.
>> This is whats avoids to use merchant silicon and what impact
>>performance.
>> >
>> >Xiaohu
>> >
>> >> >Xiaohu
>> >> >
>> >> >> >Xiaohu
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> On 27/11/13 02:31, "Xuxiaohu" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >Fine. In my draft, both intra-subnet and inter-subnet IP
>> >> >> >> >traffic are forwarded at layer3 while in the draft you
>> >> >> >> >mentioned below only inter-subnet traffic would be forwarded
>> >> >> >> >at layer3. They are totally different approaches and therefore
>> >> >> >> >it's meaningless to say which one is easier or not.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >Xiaohu
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> -----邮件原件-----
>> >> >> >> >> 发件人: Henderickx, Wim (Wim)
>> >> >> >> [mailto:[email protected]]
>> >> >> >> >> 发送时间: 2013年11月25日 19:16
>> >> >> >> >> 收件人: Xuxiaohu; [email protected]
>> >> >> >> >> 抄送: [email protected]
>> >> >> >> >> 主题: Re: 答复: 答复: 答复: New Version Notification for
>> >> >> >> >> draft-xu-l3vpn-virtual-subnet-02.txt
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> Lets debate the technical solutions iso blogs.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> On 25/11/13 08:52, "Xuxiaohu" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >I suggest you read the following blog post by Yakov
>> >> >> >> >> >(http://opencontrail.org/why-contrail-is-using-bgpmpls/).
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> >> -----邮件原件-----
>> >> >> >> >> >> 发件人: Henderickx, Wim (Wim)
>> >> >> >> >> [mailto:[email protected]]
>> >> >> >> >> >> 发送时间: 2013年11月25日 15:27
>> >> >> >> >> >> 收件人: Xuxiaohu; [email protected]
>> >> >> >> >> >> 抄送: [email protected]
>> >> >> >> >> >> 主题: Re: 答复: 答复: New Version Notification for
>> >> >> >> >> >> draft-xu-l3vpn-virtual-subnet-02.txt
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> There are easier ways to do this which don’t required
>> >> >> >> >> >>data-plane changes.
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >>https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-sajassi-l2vpn-evpn-inter
>> >> >> >> >> >>-su
>> >> >> >> >> >>bne
>> >> >> >> >> >>t-f
>> >> >> >> >> >>orw
>> >> >> >> >> >>ard
>> >> >> >> >> >>in
>> >> >> >> >> >> g-02
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> On 25/11/13 07:40, "Xuxiaohu" <[email protected]>
>>wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----邮件原件-----
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> 发件人: Henderickx, Wim (Wim)
>> >> >> >> >> >> [mailto:[email protected]]
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> 发送时间: 2013年11月25日 14:29
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> 收件人: Xuxiaohu; [email protected]
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> 抄送: [email protected]
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> 主题: Re: 答复: New Version Notification for
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> draft-xu-l3vpn-virtual-subnet-02.txt
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> It is not about TTL 1, no TTL decrement should happen
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>for intra-subnet  forwarding at all On top you need to
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>modify the data-plane to achieve this,  since it now
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>needs to find out if it is intra or inter subnet where
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>current
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>PE(s)  don’t have to do
>> >> >> >> >>this.
>> >> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> >> >Sure, it needs some change to the implementation of PE
>> >> >>routers.
>> >> >> >> >> >> >That's why we need a draft to specify the implementation
>> >> >> >> >>requirements.
>> >> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> On 25/11/13 07:22, "Xuxiaohu" <[email protected]>
>> >>wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >Wim,
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >It said clearly "if the source and destination
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >addresses of a packet whose TTL is set to 1 belong to
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >the same extended subnet, both ingress and egress PE
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >routers MUST NOT decrement the TTL of such packet."
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >Did you doubt that the PE routers could know whether
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >the source and destination address belong to the same
>> >> >> >> >> extended subnet?
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >Xiaohu
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----邮件原件-----
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> 发件人: Henderickx, Wim (Wim)
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> [mailto:[email protected]]
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> 发送时间: 2013年11月25日 14:08
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> 收件人: Xuxiaohu; [email protected]
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> 抄送: [email protected]
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> 主题: Re: New Version Notification for
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>draft-xu-l3vpn-virtual-subnet-02.txt
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On the TTL issue I believe this is not addressing
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> the
>> >> >>issue.
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>We can say don’t  decrement but when and how will
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>the
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>PE(s) do or
>> >> >> >> >> >>don’t.
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On 25/11/13 03:22, "Xuxiaohu" <[email protected]>
>> >> >>wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >Hi all,
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >Major changes since the -01 version include:
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >1) add a section about TTL consideration;
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >2) remove the section of PE Router FIB Reduction;
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >3) remove the section of PE Router RIB Reduction;
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >Any further comments are welcome. BTW, the removed
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >sections as mentioned above would be described in
>> >> >>separate
>> >> >> docs.
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >Best regards,
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >Xiaohu
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----邮件原件-----
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> 发件人: [email protected]
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>[mailto:[email protected]]
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> 发送时间: 2013年11月25日 10:10
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> 收件人: Brendan Fee; Susan Hares; Fan Yongbing;
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>Xuxiaohu; Xuxiaohu; Christian  Jacquenet; Truman
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>Boyes; Yongbing Fan
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> 主题: New Version Notification for
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>draft-xu-l3vpn-virtual-subnet-02.txt
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> A new version of I-D,
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>draft-xu-l3vpn-virtual-subnet-02.txt
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> has been successfully submitted by Xiaohu Xu and
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>posted to the IETF repository.
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Filename:     draft-xu-l3vpn-virtual-subnet
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Revision:     02
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Title:                Virtual Subnet: A L3VPN-based 
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Subnet
>> >> >>Extension
>> >> >> >> >> >>Solution
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Creation date:        2013-11-25
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Group:                Individual Submission
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Number of pages: 13
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> URL:
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-xu-l3vpn-v
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>irt
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>ual
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>-su
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>bne
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>t-0
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>2.t
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>xt
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Status:
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-xu-l3vpn-vi
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>rtu
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>al-
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>sub
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>net
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Htmlized:
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-l3vpn-virtual
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>-su
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>bne
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>t-0
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>2
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Diff:
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-xu-l3vpn-v
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>irt
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>ual
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>-su
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>bne
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>t-0
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>2
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Abstract:
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>    This document describes a Layer3 Virtual
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Private Network
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>(L3VPN)-
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>    based subnet extension solution referred to
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> as Virtual Subnet,
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>which
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>    can be used as a kind of Layer3 network
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> virtualization
>> >> >> >> >> >>overlay
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>    approach for data center interconnect.
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>from the time of submission  until the htmlized
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> The IETF Secretariat
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >
>> >
>

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