Also there NO Real "Anti-War Movement" these days. What is now labeled as an
"Anti-War Movement" is totally controled and its so called "anti-war
actions" consist of almost exclusively jsut "Rallies" and in thos Rallies"
there are Speeches - Rally, Rally GREAT SPEECHES - and WOW those SPEECHES
will surley End the Wars on Afghanistand and Iraq - OR NOT!
But no woker actions and no boyucotts and no STRIKES to end the Wars on
Afgnanistan and on Irq.
And in the end the so called "Anti-War Movement" has teamed and paired
with the Industiral-Military Complex to purpetuate the Wars on Afgananistand
and on Iraq. so now we have the Industrial- Military - Anti-War Complex.
And the "Liberals and the "Progressives" and even the "Radicals" are now
FULLY cooperatining with the Capitalists.
JIm "Now Teamwork has been Established to Wage the Never Ending Wars."
D.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Novick" <[email protected]>
To: "John A Imani" <[email protected]>
Cc: <[email protected]>; "LAAMN" <[email protected]>;
<[email protected]>; "laaMN" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 10:20 AM
Subject: Re: [actionla] Re: Cynthia McKinney in LA August 7th to tell Us the
TRUTH
> Not just body bags -- Vietnam was the first (and last) war televised more
> or less live and uncensored into the living rooms. The Empire will never
> make that mistake again, the media are too totally controlled. Also, the
> Vietnam War took place simultaneously with a massive upsurge and war at
> home led by the Black freedom/power struggle, along with AIM/indigenous
> resistance, the Chicano/mexicano movement/Moratorium/Brown Berets, the
> Young Lords and other Puerto Rican independentistas, and a widespread
> sense of the possibility and efficacy of revolutionary resistance and
> street action. That was defused not only by the switch from the draft to
> the "all-volunteer" army, but by COINTELPRO, massive repression, the use
> of Christian and Muslim fundamentalism, infiltration of labor and student
> groups by the CIA, etc etc.
>
> At 07:15 PM 7/31/2011, John A Imani wrote:
>>I think Jim is right about the heterodox that was the anti-war movement of
>>the '60s and 70's. I think he's also right about (American) people not
>>giving a damn until they or their kids got drafted. There was another
>>thing though: body bags. When the Viet Cong started sending Americans
>>home in them, that was when sentiment really changed. Americans, I think
>>are like that. Long as its 'them' getting killed by Americans there ain't
>>no problem. When its 'US' getting killed then it' time to think about
>>this shit. This push towards uber-mechanized warfare: UAV's, robots, etc,
>>is in response to the possibility of the same thing happening. Coward
>>m'f'ers from Nevada flying UAVs spitting out Hellfire missles killing
>>dozens of women, kids, civilian non-combatants--mere 'collateral
>>damage--and ain't no protest here. But let one brave heroic Muslim pull
>>out his pistol and get a few in return (Maj Nadal for example) and a
>>phobia sweeps cross the land and other Muslims are attacked for being
>>Muslim when the reason that the Muslim attacked was to do like Bunchy
>>Carter told brothers to do: (Resist!) He said,"Do something. Do
>>something, Niggah. Do something even if you just spit!" I ain't mad at
>>those people who are fighting back against this particularly insidious
>>method of warfare. Its lke the Palestinians under the boot of Israel.
>>SPIT!!!
>>
>>JAI
>>RAC-LA
>>
>>----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]>
>>To: "LAAMN" <[email protected]>; "socialism"
>><[email protected]>; <[email protected]>;
>><[email protected]>; <[email protected]>
>>Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 3:09 AM
>>Subject: [actionla] Re: Cynthia McKinney in LA August 7th to tell Us the
>>TRUTH
>>
>>
>>>
>>> I think that what caused the protests against the War on Vietnam to
>>>build up was the re-institution of the DRAFT.
>>> People did not much care very much about the War on Vietnam.
>>> And people did not really care much about the killing and oppression
>>> of
>>>Vietnamese.
>>> BUT people Sure Did CARE A LOT about themselves (and their
>>>children etc.) Being Drafted.
>>> Oh and in the Vietnamese War era there was not the UNITED (and
>>> totally
>>>controlled) "Anti-War Movement". And in the Vietnamese War era there were
>>>various Anti-War actions like street shutdowns and even some work place
>>>shut
>>>downs (i.e. STRIKES) and there were boycotts and campus shutdowns etc.
>>> In todays' - much, much Much more organized "Anti-War Movement" there
>>>are much Better "Rallies" - with "Permits" asked for from and given by
>>>the
>>>very government entities that are waging the Wars and all those worthless
>>>actions like work stoppages and campus shutdowns and boycotts are no
>>>longer
>>>needed in today's much more efficient "Anti-War Movement". Today the
>>>"Anti-War Movement" and the government entities that are waging the Wars
>>>are
>>>Working Together. So now the "modern" "Anti-War Movement" and the
>>>government
>>>War machine are working together and they are UNITED! Yea we have Won!
>>> Today it is the Speeches that are the important thing in the
>>> "Anti-War
>>>Movement". BUT Boy those SPEECHES ARE GREAT. And WOW the Egos that get
>>>built by those SPEECHES and the tiny power that is increased in today's
>>>much
>>>more effecient "Anti-War Movement"
>>> So things are Much better in today's "Anti-War Movement" than in the
>>>Vietnamese War era. We have Won!
>>> Jim "The current Wars on Afghanistan and on Iraq are much Smarter
>>> Wars
>>>than the Vietnamese War - No DRAFT in today's Wars so very few people
>>>care
>>>about ending today's Wars. and NOTHING is really being done to end the
>>>Wars
>>>on Afghanistand and on Iraq." D.
>>>
>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Barry" <[email protected]>
>>>To: <[email protected]>
>>>Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 9:02 AM
>>>Subject: [change-links] Re: Cynthia McKinney in LA August 7th!
>>>
>>>
>>>>Although I have not held a membership card from organized political
>>>>tendency since 1986, I have held the belief -- ever since leading
>>>>protests
>>>>against the U.S. war in Vietnam while a high school student -- that
>>>>pressure resulting from protests against foreign interventions / wars
>>>>can
>>>>stay the hand of the guilty government. And I remember that it took
>>>>about
>>>>8 years for protests to build up from relatively small pickets and
>>>>teach-ins to mass marches which (along with the heroic fight of the
>>>>Vietnamese and other international factors) forced Washington to
>>>>withdraw
>>>>from Indochina. And, then, like now, there were pseudo-Marxists and
>>>>pseudo-radicals who were never part of building (or even supporting the
>>>>building) of such protests.
>>>>-- Barry Schier
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>--- In [email protected], Cort Greene <cort.greene@...>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> *Sorry Barry I don't support the intervention and certainly the
>>>>>International Marxist Tendency does not and I can understand your
>>>>>confusion
>>>>>about politics, what anti-imperialism is from your SWP days and from
>>>>>what a
>>>>>sect is but it sounds like you are using the "Old Uncle Joe Cannon"
>>>>>attacks
>>>>>that he use against the tendency in the late 1930's and 40's when he
>>>>>used
>>>>>Healy to attacked them in England.*
>>>>>
>>>>>*Turns out Grant et al were mostly correct in their analysis then and
>>>>>now,
>>>>>thats why they have organized in 42 countries and are well respected in
>>>>>many
>>>>>others.*
>>>>>**
>>>>>*Now Workers World, PSL and the "book club" SWP are very small and
>>>>>insignificant, their days are numbered that people will listen at all
>>>>>or
>>>>>do
>>>>>to them is proven as fact.*
>>>>>**
>>>>>*Cort*
>>>>> **
>>>>> * One fool can ask more questions in a minute than twelve wise men
>>>>> can
>>>>>answer in an hour.*
>>>>>*--Nikolai Lenin*
>>>>>
>>>>>On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 10:38 AM, Barry <bschier@...> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> > **
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Yes, Qaddafi, despite his demagoguery about leading a Libyan "Green
>>>>> > Revolution," is a functionary of the capitalist class and overturn
>>>>> > of
>>>>> > that
>>>>> > government by the masses would represent opening of democratic
>>>>> space > to
>>>>> > organize, etc. as well as more rights for Libya's oppressed
>>>>> > nationalities
>>>>> > (e.g., Berbers and others).
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Moreover, as someone who built / participated in the march / rally
>>>>> > of
>>>>> > Georgians for the E.R.A. just prior to moving to Los Angeles, I
>>>>> > recognize
>>>>> > the McKinney name as deeply tied with Atlanta Democratic politics--
>>>>> > although
>>>>> > the political career and freeway named after Rep. Billy McKinney
>>>>> > started
>>>>> > later and his advice to daughter Cynthia to run for office was still
>>>>> > later
>>>>> > and her change of colors to "Green" with little or no change in
>>>>> > politics /
>>>>> > perspective occurring even later in time.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > However, overturn of ANY government by the United States and its
>>>>> > allies --
>>>>> > whether under Bush's terminology of "regime change" or any other
>>>>> > phrase --
>>>>> > would, in addition to the stated aims of the imperialist bombing,
>>>>> > etc.
>>>>> > campaign, establish a precedent for further intervention/s
>>>>> > elsewhere.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > How ironic that Greene, a spokesperson / apologist for a tiny sect
>>>>> > calling
>>>>> > itself "Marxist," should condemn the others for their
>>>>> "criminal > actions
>>>>> > in
>>>>> > helping with the demise of anti-war movement" while not condemning /
>>>>> > organizing against a real war being waged by the U.S. government and
>>>>> > its
>>>>> > proxies (especially NATO) in northern Africa.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > U.S. Hands Off Libya!!
>>>>> >
>>>>> > -- Barry Schier--
>>>>> > *A means can be justified only by its end. But the end in its turn
>>>>> > needs
>>>>> > to be justified.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > (Also quoted as "The end may justify the means as long as there is
>>>>> > something that justifies the end.")
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Leon Trotsky
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Their Morals and Ours (1938)*
>>>>> >
>>>
>>
>>
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>>**NEW Activist Tools from ActionLA!**
>>>
>>>http://www.ActivistVideo.org
>>>An Activist-Run Video Sharing Page!
>>>
>>>
>>>==============================================================
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>>>Action for World Liberation Everyday!
>>>Tel: (213)403-0131
>>>URL: http://www.ActionLA.org
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>>>
>>>To join the list, send e-mail to: [email protected]
>>>or visit: http://lists.riseup.net/www/info/actionla
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>>>To add your event, please go:
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>>>Please support our important works of ActionLA! Send your donations to:
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>>>
>>>For Credit Card donations, please visit:
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>**NEW Activist Tools from ActionLA!**
>>
>>http://www.ActivistVideo.org
>>An Activist-Run Video Sharing Page!
>>
>>
>>==============================================================
>>ActionLA
>>Action for World Liberation Everyday!
>>Tel: (213)403-0131
>>URL: http://www.ActionLA.org
>>e-mail: [email protected]
>>
>>To join the list, send e-mail to: [email protected]
>>or visit: http://lists.riseup.net/www/info/actionla
>>
>>To unsubscribe from the list, send e-mail to:
>>[email protected]
>>
>>*Please post your protest, community event and news at ActionLA!*
>>
>>To add your event, please go:
>>http://actionla.org/user/addevents.php
>>
>>To publish your announcement and community news, please visit:
>>http://actionla.org/user/publish.php
>>
>>
>>**WE NEED YOUR SUPPORT!
>>
>>Please support our important works of ActionLA! Send your donations to:
>>
>>ActionLA
>>P.O. Box 751
>>South Pasadena, CA 91031-0751
>>(at the memo line write donations to ActionLA/AFGJ, all donations are tax
>>deductible)
>>
>>For Credit Card donations, please visit:
>>http://www.actionla.org/Donation.htm
>
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