For the Video of these interviews and subjects, click on the URL. It's right at the top http://www.democracynow.org/2012/5/2/obama_touts_wars_end_in_afghanistan Obama Touts Wars End in Afghanistan, But Critics See Election-Year Guise for Prolonged Occupation
NERMEEN SHAIKH: We begin with Afghanistan, where several large explosions rocked the capital Kabul hours after President Obamas surprise visit to the country on the one-year anniversary of Osama bin Ladens death. The suicide attacks were claimed by the Taliban and resulted in at least seven deaths and numerous wounded. Taliban spokesperson Zabiullah Mujahid said, quote, "It is a message to Obama that he and his forces are never welcomed in Afghanistan and that we will continue our resistance until all the occupiers are either dead or leave our country." During his brief visit, President Obama delivered a prime-time address to the American public from Bagram Air Base. Obama signed an agreement with President Hamid Karzai on future Afghan-U.S. relations in Kabul Tuesday ahead of a NATO summit in Chicago later this month. PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Good evening from Bagram Air Base. This outpost is more than 7,000 miles from home, but for over a decade its been close to our hearts, because here in Afghanistan more than half a million of our sons and daughters have sacrificed to protect our country. Today I signed a historic agreement between the United States and Afghanistan that defines a new kind of relationship between our countries, a future in which Afghans are responsible for the security of their nation and we build an equal partnership between two sovereign states, a future in which war ends and a new chapter begins. NERMEEN SHAIKH: President Obama, speaking at Bagram Air Base Tuesday night during an unannounced trip to Afghanistan. The Strategic Partnership Agreement pledges American support for Afghanistan for 10 years after the withdrawal of the last U.S. soldiers at the end of 2014. President Karzai said the agreement signaled a new chapter in bilateral relations between Afghanistan and the U.S., one marked by, quote, "mutual respect." AMY GOODMAN: Meanwhile, a new Pentagon report issued Tuesday said even though there has been a decline in violence, the U.S. has made limited gains on key issues in Afghanistan. The report says the most pressing concern remains the safe haven provided to insurgents in Pakistan, stating, quote, "The Taliban-led insurgency and its al Qaeda affiliates still operate with impunity from sanctuaries in Pakistan." Well, to talk more about the significance of President Obamas surprise trip and the agreement, were joined by two people. Ann Wright is with us, retired Army colonel and former U.S. diplomat. She spent 29 years in the military, later served as a high-ranking diplomat in the State Department. In 2001, she helped oversee the reopening of the U.S. embassy in Afghanistan, where she served as deputy chief of mission. In 2003, she resigned her State Department post to protest the war in Iraq. She has been back to Afghanistan twice. Were also joined via Democracy Now! video stream from California by Tariq Ali, the British-Pakistani political commentator, writer, activist, editor of the New Left Review, author of numerous books, including The Obama Syndrome: Surrender at Home, War Abroad, joining us from Santa Monica. Were going to go first to Tariq Ali. Can you talk about President Obamas announcement last night from Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan? TARIQ ALI: Well, Amy, I mean, A, why is he there? Its clearly a lot more to do with the re-election campaign, where the execution of Osama bin Laden is obviously going to be a key feature, and theyve started using it, and secondly, to pretend that somehow this war is over. But its not over, because the United States can stay there or use the so-called Afghan bases until 2024. And forgotten, Amy, are the pools of blood, the embers, the cries of rage, the sobbing of women and children, and the horrors that have been inflicted on that country. And this is what the real cause for continuing terrorism is. I noticed the President saying, "I am in Bagram Air Base, 7,000 miles away." He could have said, "And not far from here is Bagram Prison, where prisoners are still being tortured without any recourse to law at all." So its essentially a PR visit designed to aid the re-election campaign. As far as Afghanistan is concerned, everyone, including the Pentagon, knows that this war is unwinnable. NERMEEN SHAIKH: But Tariq, can you say something, Tariq, about the actual agreement that was signed, because a number of people have pointed out that key issues have not been resolved, including how long some U.S. forces will stay in the country even after the formal withdrawal in 2014? TARIQ ALI: Well, you know, formal withdrawals are useless, because essentially what the agreementKarzai has signed. And who does he speak for? Hes not a sovereign leader. Afghanistan is not a sovereign state; its an occupied state. So having President Obama go there and sign a deal with a puppet president who represents nobody and who can barely travel inside the country itself is a joke. And for this guy to agree that U.S. forces can use the bases 'til 2024 is a total joke, because he won't be there. If the Americans really leave Afghanistan, theyd be well advised to take him with them. AMY GOODMAN: Well, lets talk about President Hamid Karzai for a minute. During an interview with Christiane Amanpour on CNN, he talked about the massacre of 17 Afghan villagers earlier this year. He denied calling U.S. soldiers demons but said the killings were an act of intentional terrorism. PRESIDENT HAMID KARZAI: Demons, I have never used the word "demon" in the English language. The word "intentional terror," yes, I did use in the English language. It was my input into the statement that we made. This was intentional. When someone walks out of a military barrack and goes to kill villagers, thats intentional, and thats terrorism. AMY GOODMAN: Thats Afghanistans president, Hamid Karzai. Tariq Ali? TARIQ ALI: I know. Well, what else could he say, Amy, when it was such an obvious, blatant violation of everything the West is supposed to stand for? And, of course, pretending that this is an individual act by one guy, not part of a general problem. I mean, this is one guy doing it. Essentially, U.S. military policy in the region is to do it systematically in different parts of the country. Thats the real problem. And the fact that Karzai has to come out and say this in these conditions shows how much anger there is. And by the way, 60 percent of U.S. citizens, according to the last Pew foundation opinion pollings, are against carrying on in that country. So the Afghans dont want it, American citizens dont want it, but the United States president is carrying on. NERMEEN SHAIKH: But one of the points that Obama made in his speech last night was that the U.S. will work with Afghanistan over the next decade, but will not be establishing permanent bases in the country. TARIQ ALI: Well, I mean, you know, their bases are already there. PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: We will work with the Afghans to determine what support they need to accomplish two narrow security missions beyond 2014: counterterrorism and continued training. But we will not build permanent bases in this country, nor will we be patrolling its cities and mountains. That will be the job of the Afghan people. NERMEEN SHAIKH: Tariq, your response? TARIQ ALI: Its, you know, surreal. The Afghan people have made it clear they dont want them. The training he talks about, the number of incidents there have been of trained Afghan soldiers actually then breaking loose and carrying out attacks on the occupying armies in Afghanistan are now legion. The special agents they have trained have turned on intelligence agents from the West and killed them. And the reason for that is that large numbers of Afghans join the army and the police forces to get training, because that is what the insurgent leadership tells them to do, and then they turn these guns on the occupiers. So the notion that everything is calm and that Karzai somehow represents something is a totally grotesque analysis. NERMEEN SHAIKH: I want to bring in Ann Wright into the conversation. Ann Wright, there was an AP report issued earlier this week that found that the number of attacks against ISAF and U.S. forces in Afghanistan by Afghan soldiers and the police are increasing and are also underreported. So thats one concern. The other is that Afghan forces are in fact unprepared to take over once U.S. forces leave. Can you ANN WRIGHT: Well, indeed, the U.S. government is loath to let everyone really know what the extent of displeasure is for U.S. forces to be there. I mean, when you have the president of the United States having to come into Afghanistan in the middle of the night, and the agreement is signed at midnight, not in the middle of the day, you know that the security is lax. The idea thatyou know, weve had 1,941 U.S. soldiers alone and probably 500 NATO soldiers have been killed, lots of contractors. In fact, the kidnapping of contractors and aid workers is rife right now. Not toI mean, and then you talk about the numbers of Afghans that have been killed, I mean, in the tens of thousands. There is a reason why Afghans are shooting Americans: we have invaded and occupied their country. And the numbers of warlords that are a part of the government, who have their militias that are now being retrained, re-equipped in the new national army, means that they will come back to those warlords later. AMY GOODMAN: Ann Wright, I saw you yesterday at the May Day protest, and you were out there protesting through the day, so you hadnt heard the news that had just broken that President Obama had made the surprise trip to Afghanistan. Now, you have a unique relationship with the United States and Afghanistan. You reopened the mission there in 2001 as a U.S. diplomat. You had been an Army colonel. Talk about what happened then and your thoughts today. ANN WRIGHT: Well, 10-and-a-half years ago, when we went in as the first U.S. mission to thewith the U.S. embassy, we were giving the U.S. probably a year and a half to two years to whatever they needed to do with al-Qaeda and then do some quick humanitarian assistance, civic actions, schools, health clinics, things like that, and then remove ourselves, because we know the history of what foreign involvement is in Afghanistan. The invaders and occupiers always leave, and seldom in very good shape. Weve seen that with the British, the Russians, and now the United States, where weve spent trillions of dollars in Afghanistan, weve been there for ten-and-a-half years, and now the president of the United States has to fly in at midnight. AMY GOODMAN: You, then, worked under Ryan Crocker. ANN WRIGHT: Thats correct. Ryan Crocker AMY GOODMAN: He now ANN WRIGHT: was the first chargé daffaires that we had at the U.S. embassy. And now he is back as a retired Foreign Service officer, but now reappointed by the Obama administration as the U.S. ambassador to Afghanistan. AMY GOODMAN: At yesterdays May Day march, Democracy Now! spoke to Eli Wright of Iraq Veterans Against the War, who served in Iraq from 2002 to '08. This is what he said about Obama's visit to Afghanistan. ELI WRIGHT: I mean, obviously, I dont support either of these wars, so, you know, Iour organization calls for immediate and unconditional withdrawal from Iraq, and we also oppose the war in Afghanistan, as well. I think what were doing is creating more terrorism. Were creating more enemies of our country by engaging in these wars. And all were doing is spreading further hatred around the world. I dont think that weyou know, I dont think that the record will show that we have brought liberty or freedom or democracy to either of these countries thats worth the human costs and the economic costs that itsyou know, that were all paying. AMY GOODMAN: That was Eli Wright yesterday at Iraq Veterans Against the War, the group, at the May Day protest. Ann Wright, is there anything positive you see in what President Obama did yesterday, holding his news conference from Bagram and saying at some point in the future the U.S. will be out of Afghanistan? ANN WRIGHT: Well, the positive part is at least hes talking about removing the majority of the troops from Afghanistan. However, we have to be very cautious about what hes saying and hold his feet to the fire on this. We dont know for sure how many troops are going to be left behind, where theyre going to besupposedly there to continue to train the Afghan army. One would always question why Afghans need any more training, because it sure seems like they know how to use weapons and they know how to target facilities. In fact, within hours after the President left, a major U.S. compound in Kabul came under attack with RPGs, grenade launchers and all sorts of things, with seven people being killed. So its not like they need more training in military operations, in my opinion. NERMEEN SHAIKH: I want to turn to another issue thats been quite controversial, and that has to do with the use of drones. President Obamas top counterterrorism adviser has publicly confirmed that the United States has used drones to conduct targeted killings overseas. John Brennan spoke on Monday at the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars. He detailed and defended the killings. JOHN BRENNAN: President Obama believes that, done carefully, deliberately and responsibly, we can be more transparent and still ensure our nations security. So let me say it as simply as I can. Yes, in full accordance with the law and in order to prevent terrorist attacks on the United States and to save American lives, the United States government conducts targeted strikes against specific al-Qaeda terrorists, sometimes using remotely piloted aircraft, often referred to publicly as drones. And Im here today because President Obama has instructed us to be more open with the American people about these efforts. NERMEEN SHAIKH: That was President Obamas special adviser on homeland security and counterterrorism. John Brennans speech was disrupted by Medea Benjamin of CODEPINK. Over the weekend, Benjamin helped organize the International Drone Summit in Washington, D.C. MEDEA BENJAMIN: How many people are you willing to sacrifice? Why are you lying to the American people and not saying how many innocents have been killed? MODERATOR: Thank you, maam, for expressing your views. There will be time for questions and answers after the presentation. MEDEA BENJAMIN: I speak out on behalf of Tariq Aziz, a 16-year-old in Pakistan, who was killed because he wanted to document the drone strikes. I speak out on behalf of Abdulrahman al-Awlaki, a 16-year-old born in Denver, killed in Yemen, just because his father was someone we dont like. I speak out on behalf of the Constitution, on behalf of the rule of law. I love the rule of law. I love my country. You are making us less safe by killing so many innocent people. NERMEEN SHAIKH: That was Medea Benjamin of CODEPINK, and she was actually dragged out while speaking. Tariq Ali, your comment on the use of drones in Pakistan, in particular? TARIQ ALI: Well, I mean, this is part of the cycle of war, vengeance, terror, response from insurgents, more war, more vengeance, more terror. These drone attacks, we know full wellanyone in Pakistan will tell you about themkill large numbers of innocents. Now, by "large numbers," I dont mean tens of thousands, obviously, but I mean several hundreds, occasionally more than that, over a year and a half. And Obama has upped the drone attacks. During his period in office, the number of drone attackduring his first year in office, there were more drone attacks in Pakistan than during the previous five years of the Bush administration. So here hes been much worse, much more aggressive, and much more militaristic. And the real problem, apart from all the moral and ethical problems, is they have nil impact. They kill people, they kill innocents, and they create more problems for the United States. As for the notion that these drone attacks somehow are defending the United States and making it safe against terror, that is so crazy. It really is crazy thinking. And if these people still havent realized it, I dont know whether they ever will. These drone attacks, most people, many, many international lawyers regard them as illegal anyway. Targeting your own citizens abroad, targeting your own citizens where they are, is an added dimension to this. This is the first president whos now acquired the right, the legal right, to order the targeting and killing of any U.S. citizen without recourse to law. This has happened under this particular president, so AMY GOODMAN: Lets bring Ann Wright in to get a last comment on this, retired Army colonel, the diplomat who helped to openreopen the U.S. mission in Afghanistan in 2001. ANN WRIGHT: Well, John Brennan saying that he, on behalf of the President, was telling the American people about this program, well, were the last to learn then, because the rest of the world certainly knows about this targeted assassination program. And in fact, before Medea interrupted John Brennan on Monday, we had had a tremendous day on Sunday as we got John Brennan, as he went in to CNN, Fox News and ABC News, to let him know the irate feeling we have, by the American people, about this weapons program. It needs to stop. It is, you know, the targeted assassination of Pakistanis, Yemenis, Somalis, Afghans, and Americans now, where we have now had four Americans that have been killed by these assassin drones at the direction of the senior leadership of our country, extrajudicial killings by these drones, and they must stop. AMY GOODMAN: Were going to leave it there. I want to thank you very much, Ann Wright, retired Army colonel, a former diplomat, spent 29 years in the U.S. military, returned to Afghanistan twice after, in 2001, reopening the U.S. mission there as one of the top diplomats. Tariq Ali, thanks for being with us, editor of the New Left Review, latest book, The Obama Syndrome: Surrender at Home, War Abroad. This is Democracy Now! We covered May Day around the world. Stay with us. 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2411/4974 - Release Date: 05/02/12 _____ No virus found in this message. 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