I've never had any qualms about any of those item either. I haven't voiced opposition to those in all these years you've posted, have I?
My point has consistently been to let an investigation get fully done rather then aiding the US State Terrorism Department from fulfilling their wish list of chemical attacks by Assad, so they can justify going in militarily or any other way. After helping to fulfill the wish list of the State Department of Terrorism, to then say you don't want them to interfere, pfft.... they care not a whit once they can get a war started, the excuses after that are always... oops, no WMD's but we're in there no and we can't leave or the terrorists will win... all the US deaths (not those whom we invaded) will be for nothing! I'm so sick of that and any actions that help them justify an end to their means. Scott > Then the No to Imperialism! No to Assad! No to Religious Fundamentalism! > is the slogan that should be put forward not just not Hands Off Syria, > since other imperialists are their and some for decades. > > > and we should be against all interventions of the imperialists including > the Russians, Iranian and Chinese imperialists also. > > > On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 1:43 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > >> No one is covering for Assad's evils on my end. 2 Evils do not make a >> good, an enemy of mine enemy is not my friend. >> >> But helping the US State Terrorism Department to achieve their ends by >> fighting to have something stated as certain, before an investigation >> can >> be completed,, when that is exactly what the State Terrorism Department >> is >> looking for, is an eye opener. >> >> Scott >> >> > *I have posted for over two years to this list about Syria and the >> Assad >> > regime, so this is nothing new and I am against intervention by >> everyone >> > but for years the so called Left of cabal of Stalinist's like Workers >> > World, Party for Socialism and Liberation and groups FROC has given a >> free >> > hand for the Assad fascist regime from the get go. That is just as bad >> as >> > some who give cover to Obama,Qatar, Turkey, the Saudis, the Iranian >> regime >> > and Russian and Chinese imperialists and all the sub imperialists on >> all >> > sides.* >> > * >> > * >> > *Cort* >> > >> > >> > On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 12:38 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> >> Actually, what I don't understand is the mad rush to get everyone to >> >> agree >> >> that Assad was the one who gassed his people while he had the UN >> >> Investigators already in country BEFORE a Complete Investigation >> could >> >> be >> >> done. What was the rush, the urgency of cementing this as a reality >> >> before >> >> the UN and others could complete an Investigation? >> >> >> >> This is what Obama was asking for so he could go over the red line. >> Did >> >> thy need any help from the left? >> >> >> >> Now the same sources who helped Validate Obama and Kerry to have a >> >> reason >> >> to start WW III, are counseling against war. >> >> >> >> Sheesh, I don't understand, actually I'm afraid I might actually >> >> understand. >> >> >> >> Scott >> >> >> >> > *No to Imperialism! No to Assad! No to Religious Fundamentalism! >> >> > * >> >> > * >> >> > * >> >> > *For the Socialist Revolution in Syria, Egypt and the Middle East!* >> >> > * >> >> > * >> >> > >> >> > *Download the leaflet >> >> > here<http://www.socialist.net/images/leaflets/hands_off_syria.pdf> >> >> > * >> >> > >> >> > *Read the full article >> >> > here<http://www.socialist.net/syria-no-to-imperialist-aggression.htm> >> >> > * >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> http://www.marxist.com/syria-no-to-imperialist-aggression-august-2013.htm >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Syria - No to imperialist >> >> > aggression!< >> >> >> http://www.marxist.com/syria-no-to-imperialist-aggression-august-2013.htm> >> >> > Written by Francesco MerliTuesday, 27 August 2013 >> >> > [image: >> >> > Print]< >> >> >> http://www.marxist.com/syria-no-to-imperialist-aggression-august-2013/print.htm >> >> >[image: >> >> > E-mail]< >> >> >> http://www.marxist.com/component/option,com_mailto/link,a11df180c0326d6c063096c03534a52f90d2bb66/tmpl,component/ >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > - >> >> > - >> >> > - >> >> > >> >> > The war drums in Washington are beating their macabre tune out >> loud, >> >> > announcing an imminent US attack on Syria. In the UK, the faithful >> >> squire, >> >> > Cameron, is willingly echoing the call. Parliament is expected to >> back >> >> the >> >> > military option in an emergency meeting convened for Thursday, >> August >> >> > 29th. >> >> > Direct imperialist intervention marks a fundamental change in the >> >> > situation >> >> > in Syria after the spiralling sectarian civil war had wiped away >> the >> >> > revolutionary potential of the anti-regime protests sparked in >> January >> >> > 2011 >> >> > by the events of the Arab spring. >> >> > >> >> > [image: >> >> > syria-the-good-old-cold-war-game]< >> >> >> http://www.marxist.com/images/stories/economy/syria-the-good-old-cold-war-game.gif >> >> > >> >> > syria-the-good-old-cold-war-gameCaught in the mechanism of a bloody >> >> civil >> >> > war, the revolution has been mercilessly pushed back. The sectarian >> >> spiral >> >> > strengthened the grip of the Assad regime over the Alawite and >> >> Christian >> >> > minorities and the urban population threatened by the rising tide >> of >> >> > Islamic Sunni fundamentalist reaction within the opposition. >> Reaction >> >> took >> >> > over on both sides. >> >> > >> >> > Once the opposition switched from a mass movement of the youth >> against >> >> the >> >> > oppressive regime to a military struggle, the masses were relegated >> to >> >> the >> >> > background and the ability of the revolutionary youth to appeal to >> the >> >> > mass >> >> > of the population and break the barrier of sectarian divide along >> >> class >> >> > lines was neutralised. Thus, the question of who had access to >> >> weapons, >> >> > supplies, etc., became increasingly decisive within the opposition >> >> camp, >> >> > marking the rise of black reaction in the form of Sunni Jihadist >> >> armies >> >> > mainly around Jabhat Al-Nusra. These armies, joined by foreign >> >> mercenaries >> >> > and fuelled by generous donations and arms from Qatar and other >> Gulf >> >> > patrons, were catapulted to the front of the battle. Any residual >> >> > revolutionary element has since then been completely marginalised >> or >> >> > crushed. >> >> > >> >> > [image: US army mission Syrian border-US Army Europe Staff Sgt Joel >> >> > Salgado]< >> >> >> http://www.marxist.com/images/stories/syria/US_army_mission_Syrian_border-US_Army_Europe_Staff_Sgt_Joel_Salgado.jpg >> >> >As >> >> > we were warning in >> >> > June< >> http://www.marxist.com/no-to-imperialist-intervention-in-syria.htm >> >> >, >> >> > US imperialism eventually resolved to step up direct intervention >> by >> >> > supplying arms and by training the Free Syrian Army in a desperate >> >> attempt >> >> > to change the relations of forces within the opposition and prevent >> >> the >> >> > Jihadists from consolidating their leading position. >> >> > >> >> > This attempt was too little too late. Obama failed miserably to win >> >> the >> >> > backing of Congress, while the military situation swiftly changed >> in >> >> > favour >> >> > of the Assad regime which is clearly winning the war, thus forcing >> US >> >> > imperialism to rush into a more direct intervention in order to >> slow >> >> down >> >> > and eventually prevent the consolidation of the Syrian regime's >> >> military >> >> > advance. >> >> > >> >> > The key to understanding the present situation lies precisely in >> the >> >> > dramatic turn taken by events on the Syrian battle ground. >> >> > Is the Assad regime using chemical weapons? >> >> > >> >> > On Wednesday, August 21st, news broke out of an attack with Sarin >> gas >> >> or >> >> > some other chemical agent killing hundreds of civilians in an >> >> opposition >> >> > controlled area of Damascus. Almost immediately (and in some cases >> >> even * >> >> > before* the alleged attack took place) videos showing scores of >> >> corpses >> >> > and >> >> > hospitals full of suffering civilians, especially children, were >> >> published >> >> > on the internet claiming that the attack was carried out by >> government >> >> > forces. >> >> > >> >> > The justification for the announced US attack is based on alleged >> >> > evidence assembled in yet another dossier botched up by US >> >> > intelligence >> >> > which is claiming the use of chemical weapons against the civilian >> >> > population by the Assad regime. >> >> > >> >> > Over the weekend, US president Obama called his national security >> team >> >> > together and ordered it to prepare a declassified report for public >> >> > release >> >> > before any military strike commences. On Monday, US Secretary of >> State >> >> > John >> >> > Kerry stated that the evidence is screaming at us that chemical >> >> weapons >> >> > were used in Syria, and that Syria's use of chemical weapons >> should >> >> shock >> >> > the conscience of the world. >> >> > >> >> > As stated many times over the last months by US government sources, >> >> and >> >> > reiterated by a deputy national security advisor to Obama on June >> 14, >> >> the >> >> > use of chemical weapons violates international norms and crosses >> red >> >> lines >> >> > that have existed in the international community for decades >> thus >> >> > providing a providential excuse to back up plans for an attack on >> >> Syria. >> >> > >> >> > We don't know whether there is any grain of truth in this >> dossier. >> >> > Chemical weapons are most likely in the hands of both the Syrian >> army >> >> and >> >> > the armed opposition gangs. If chemical weapons were used at all in >> >> this >> >> > particular attack, it could have been the result of a tragic >> mistake >> >> on >> >> > the >> >> > part of the Syrian Army, as some commentators have suggested, or a >> >> > desperate move gone out of control on the part of one of the >> factions >> >> of >> >> > the armed opposition in order to provoke US intervention or it >> could >> >> be >> >> > simply plainly false. >> >> > >> >> > But certainly there is no interest in establishing the truth, not >> by >> >> the >> >> > US >> >> > government desperate for an excuse to intervene nor by the >> >> demoralised >> >> > forces of the armed opposition, who see US intervention as the only >> >> way >> >> to >> >> > resurrect their chances to turn the war around. >> >> > >> >> > To whomever nurtures hopes (as unfortunately seems to be the case >> for >> >> most >> >> > of the leaders of the international left and trade union movement) >> >> that >> >> > the >> >> > United Nations could play a role in preventing an escalation of the >> >> > conflict, suffice it to repeat what we stated in June: >> >> > >> >> > The UN is an irrelevance. Diplomacy has been brushed aside by >> events >> >> on >> >> > the field of battle. War will now decide everything. >> >> > >> >> > *On the other side, we cannot emphasize enough that the Assad >> regime >> >> does >> >> > not need to use chemical weapons to crush their opponents and in >> >> fact >> >> it >> >> > would be complete madness for them to do so conceding the US a very >> >> much >> >> > sought after excuse to directly intervene in the conflict.* >> >> > >> >> > The balance of forces in this war has turned quite dramatically >> during >> >> the >> >> > last few months and the Syrian army has proven to be quite capable >> of >> >> > overpowering the armed capabilities of the opposition. >> >> > >> >> > In war, truth is the first casualty the notorious phrase >> >> attributed >> >> to >> >> > Aeschilus goes but even according to the low standards of war >> >> > propaganda, >> >> > this appears to be a complete farce. >> >> > >> >> > This situation cannot but remind us of the dossier upon which >> George >> >> > Bush >> >> > and Tony Blair solemnly swore and solemnly lied that the Iraqi >> >> regime >> >> > of Saddam Hussein was in possession of weapons of mass >> destruction, >> >> > thusjustifying >> >> > the US led aggression in Iraq in 2003. >> >> > What are the real aims of US imperialism? >> >> > >> >> > But the point is not just whether chemical weapons have been used >> or >> >> not >> >> > and by whom. After more than 100,000 deaths in this bloody civil >> war >> >> in >> >> > Syria over the last two years, the US government is now becoming >> >> suddenly >> >> > extremely concerned by the killing of women and children and >> innocent >> >> > civilians. How many have been killed before by weapons supplied by >> the >> >> > imperialist powers to one or the other side of this bloody proxy >> war >> >> > Russia and Iran in support of the Assad regime and the unholy >> alliance >> >> of >> >> > US, Britain, France, Qatar and Saudi Arabia on the other side? >> >> > >> >> > The sheer number of victims speaks for itself. Does it matter that >> >> > children >> >> > are executed in the streets or in front of their parents by >> >> reactionary >> >> > thugs for defying the rules of so-called Islamic laws, or killed in >> >> one >> >> of >> >> > the many bombardments of whole neighbourhoods carried out by the >> >> rebels >> >> > (or >> >> > by the Syrian army) with conventional weapons? Does it matter >> that >> >> > entire >> >> > families are rounded up, locked up in a building and blown up with >> >> > dynamite >> >> > as happened in Khalidiya just because they happen to be of >> Christian >> >> or >> >> > Alawite descent? Clearly all this is not enough to cross the red >> >> line >> >> of >> >> > imperialist hypocrisy. >> >> > >> >> > And will the US intelligent cruise missiles discriminate between >> >> > military >> >> > personnel and civilians once they wipe away parts of Syrian cities >> in >> >> a >> >> > ball of fire? Who will bear the consequences of the destruction of >> >> > infrastructure, communication, energy and water supplies, and the >> long >> >> > term >> >> > devastating consequences of a surgical use of US conventional >> >> weapons >> >> > of mass destruction (like the depleted uranium shells of the bombs >> >> thrown >> >> > down upon the former Yugoslavia)? It will be the same children and >> >> > civilians these stinking hypocrites are claiming to defend. >> >> > >> >> > How will these children and civilians be helped by a barrage of >> cruise >> >> > missiles hitting their country? But above all, what are the real >> aims >> >> of >> >> > imperialist intervention? >> >> > >> >> > The declared aim to strike against the Syrian regime's military >> assets >> >> as >> >> > a >> >> > warning not to use chemical weapons is risible. So is the >> pretence >> >> to >> >> > destroy the deposits of chemical weapons, as if the Syrian army >> were >> >> > patiently waiting for the US military strategists to take their >> time >> >> over >> >> > the past months without having put in place elementary >> countermeasures >> >> to >> >> > protect their stocks of weapons and defend their military >> operational >> >> > capability from air strikes. >> >> > >> >> > Maybe a glimpse of the real aim of the threatened military attack >> >> could >> >> be >> >> > given by the following comment published on Sunday by the *New York >> >> > Times*: >> >> > >> >> > But the Obama administration should resist the temptation to >> >> intervene >> >> > more forcefully in Syrias civil war. A victory by either side >> would >> >> be >> >> > equally undesirable for the United States. >> >> > >> >> > At this point, a prolonged stalemate is the only outcome that >> would >> >> not >> >> > be >> >> > damaging to American interests. (NYT, August 25) >> >> > >> >> > The most plausible aim of US intervention seems to us to be that of >> >> > seriously affecting the Syrian Army's ability of taking advantage >> of >> >> the >> >> > momentum gained in their offensive against the opposition armies. >> The >> >> US >> >> > military strategists are aiming at buying them some time so that >> they >> >> can >> >> > reorganise and re-establish a situation of stalemate, where *war >> >> continues >> >> > without any of the opponents being able to win it*. This scenario >> >> would >> >> > open up the opportunity for the imperialists to manoeuvre and reach >> an >> >> > agreement behind the backs of the suffering masses through >> diplomacy >> >> and >> >> a >> >> > so-called peace conference. So goodbye to the cries of defending >> >> unarmed >> >> > children and civilians from the threat of the monstrous Assad >> regime! >> >> > >> >> > It is a dangerous even desperate move on the part of US >> >> imperialism, >> >> > which may be ineffective at best and drag them into a much deeper >> >> direct >> >> > involvement in the conflict much feared by US military >> strategists. >> >> The >> >> > Syrian war has already the characteristics of a proxy war between >> >> > important >> >> > imperialist powers in the region. >> >> > >> >> > According to some sources, the Russian military has already >> delivered >> >> > advanced S-300 surface-to-air missile batteries for Assad, operated >> by >> >> > Russian technicians. What the consequences will be of a US air >> strike >> >> > killing Russian soldiers is open for speculation. The US attack may >> be >> >> > launched from four missile destroyers that the US Navy has deployed >> in >> >> the >> >> > area in recent days. But the options for the US to strike Syria >> >> include >> >> > air >> >> > force bases in several Mediterranean countries, Turkey amongst >> them. >> >> > >> >> > Partly in response to this, Russia has, for the first time in >> decades, >> >> > announced the establishment of a permanent presence in the >> >> Mediterranean >> >> > and has moved several large landing ships, supply ships and >> destroyers >> >> to >> >> > the area. >> >> > >> >> > Throughout the international media we are witnessing the beginning >> of >> >> a >> >> > propaganda campaign aimed at preparing public opinion for a >> direct >> >> > military intervention on the part of US imperialism and its minor >> >> > partners. >> >> > >> >> > It is an elementary duty for revolutionaries internationally to >> unmask >> >> the >> >> > real interests of imperialism and oppose this intervention, which >> has >> >> > nothing to do with humanitarian considerations. The Syrian masses >> are >> >> just >> >> > pawns in a larger cynical chess game of the imperialist powers. >> >> > >> >> > Imperialism has nothing to offer to the Syrian people and the >> masses >> >> in >> >> > the >> >> > Middle East. Over the last three years millions took to the streets >> >> > demanding decent living conditions, work, bread, dignity, an end to >> >> > corruption and brutal repressive regimes. The revolutionary forces >> >> have >> >> > succeeded in overthrowing some of these hated regimes, but have >> failed >> >> so >> >> > far in overthrowing the system which created them and the ruling >> >> classes >> >> > which were benefiting from them. In some cases, as in Libya and >> Syria, >> >> > this >> >> > failure has been paid for with civil war and bloody reaction, and >> we >> >> have >> >> > seen that even the most basic aspirations of the masses can never >> be >> >> met >> >> > within the system of capitalism. >> >> > >> >> > Our appeal to the Syrian youth and working class, regardless of >> >> religious >> >> > and ethnic divisions, is not to trust the imperialists, neither to >> >> trust >> >> > Assad or the reactionary opposition, but to prepare and join your >> >> brothers >> >> > and sisters and the masses of the Middle East in the common >> struggle >> >> > against capitalism and imperialist oppression. More revolutionary >> >> upsurges >> >> > are being prepared throughout the whole region and it is here where >> >> the >> >> > path lies for the liberation of the masses in the Arab world. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > ------------------------------------ >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> > LAAMN: Los Angeles Alternative Media Network >> >> > >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> > Unsubscribe: <mailto:[email protected]> >> >> > >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> > Subscribe: <mailto:[email protected]> >> >> > >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> > Digest: <mailto:[email protected]> >> >> > >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> > Help: <mailto:[email protected]?subject=laamn> >> >> > >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> > Post: <mailto:[email protected]> >> >> > >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> > Archive1: <http://www.egroups.com/messages/laamn> >> >> > >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> > Archive2: <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]> >> >> > >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> > Yahoo! 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