On 14 Oct 2004, at 13:59, Sandi Woods wrote:
I've never seen 90/2 Pipers' silk, and their website doesn't list it either.The book suggests Pipers silks - 90/2 & 80/3 etc as the correct threads for the prickings as printed. In Sandi's earlier book - Special Effects in Bobbin Lace - the pricking guides say that if you use the Piper's threads you should use the prickings at 100% (ie the same as the Inspirations). This is also the guide for Madeira tanne 50 & Gutermann silk thread.
Brenda's book says that the Pipers silks recommended have 27-30 threads/cm but that Madeira 50 has 39. Madeira 30 has 29 threads/cm in Brenda's book but Sandi's "Special Effects" suggest a pricking enlargement to 105% if tanne 30 is used.
Yes, my measurements of the Piper silks were: spun silk 80/3 = 27 wraps/cm twisted gloss 80/3 = 28 wraps/cm gimp 90/2 = 30 wraps/cm gimp 90/3 = 27 wraps/cm so all of a fairly similar thickness.
Madeira Tanne 30 = 29 wraps/cm so again a similar measurement. Madeira Tanne 50, which I measured as 39 wraps/cm is quite a bit finer.
Yes, silk is usually a bit "squashier" than cotton though it does depend a bit on how firmly or otherwise it is spun. Any thread gets less "squashy" if it is firmly spun.My question is Are the silk threads "squashier" when used in bobbin lace so that the extra threads can squeeze themselves into the space or have I totally misunderstood Brenda's work!
On the Piper's website their price list includes a list of comparable cotton threads. Both the 80/3s and the 90/3 they compare to Madeira Tanne 30, which I would agree with, but the 90/2 twisted gloss they compare to Tanne 50, Mettler 60/2 and Crochet cotton 80!!! Tanne 50 is finer than the 90/2 at 39 wraps/cm and Mettler 60/2 finer still at 46 wraps/cm. Crochet cotton 80 whatever that may be (Coats? DMC Cordonnet? Special Dentelles?) is likely to be around 30 wraps/cm
Yes it should do although substituting a cotton for a silk will make quite a difference in the feel of the finished lace.I thought that where were 99 wraps per cm in Yarn "A" and the pricking said use yarn "B", if yarn B was within a reasonable number of "wraps" of A it would work
and that otherwise youUnfortunately it's not quite as simple as that!
had an adjustment fact or to apply based on 99 X A/B (or 99 X A2/B2 ? -
please answer this one too, someone, again!).
For torchon you should be able to fit 12 threads between footside pinholes, and for point ground laces 10 threads. There are tables in the front of my books for the different size grids. For sectional laces, such as Milanese, it has to be a bit more flexible, depending of course on how curved the braids are and how many pairs you are using in relation to the width of the braid, but about 8-10 thread widths between pinholes is a rough guide. Don't try to measure the distance between 2 adjacent pins - find a straight run and count the spaces along 10mm.
A thread which measures 30 wraps/cm will fit 30 thread widths between pinholes which are 1cm (10mm) apart. If the pinholes are 5mm apart then 15 threads would fit between them (and the thread would be too fine for that pricking). but if the pinholes were only 3mm apart the same thread would only fit in 9 times and would be about right, but if the pinholes were 2mm apart it would be too thick as only 6 threads would fit between.
An approximate guide for Milanese (based on measurements from Pat Read's books) is:
3 spaces/cm = 27 wraps/cm thread
3.5 spaces/cm = 30 wraps/cm thread
4 spaces/cm = 32 wraps/cm thread
5 spaces/cm = 40 wraps/cm thread
6 spaces/cm = 50 wraps/cm thread
7 spaces/cm = 56 wraps/cm thread
Of course personal preference also comes into the equasion; you might want a thicker thread to give a substantial and dense appearance or you might want a lighter, airier appearance to your lace.
Brenda http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/paternoster/
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