-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
Lorelei Halley
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 2:59 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [lace] oud Duchesse

Patty
I have not heard the specific name you gave, but I have seen some very odd
things.  Please look at
http://lynxlace.com/bobbinlace%20revival%20era%20part.html

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I looked at your pages and I think the mystery lace with needle ground and
quite a bit larger than Duchesse in scale is something the lace dealers
foisted off  at the end of the 1900s as Vieux Flandre.  Bobbin made tape
like stuff with needleground that is quite large and coarse.

Anotheran associated lace is Duchesse-Sluisse, but I don't know its
attributes.

Someone on Arachne mentioned Oud Duchesse because I observed that it sort of
looked like Duchesse, but very flat and quite a bit less complex than what
we view as Duchesse, either with or without point de gaz.

The final whammy is a Duchesse-like part lace from the low countries that is
almost all flat and very ribbon like called Brabant Duchesse.

I have been perusing all the usual suspects of lace history (Henneberg,
Santina Levey, Heather Toomis, Ann Kraatz, Kant in de Gouden Eeus.

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==
Tebbs' book on part lace was written in 1908 and she describes how to make
various part laces which she calls Guipure de Flandre, point de Flandre, old
Flemish, old Milanese.  These are all on a scale somewhat larger than late
19th century Duchesse, and are definitely revival era laces, not truly old
18th century copies.  The term "oud Duchesse" seems odd because Duchesse was
created as a style in the last half of the 19th century, which is not that
old, even from our perspective.  What is the context in which you came
across
that term?  

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I got the term from someone on Arachne several years ago and didn't follow
it up.  Evidently, there are some patterns available (or were) in Europe in
an older, simpler form of Brussels lace, that is mainly quite flat and uses
a special circle motif.
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=

Is it possible that your source was referring to Brussels bobbin lace of the
first half of the 19th century, before the Duchesse style was invented?

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At this point, I begin to suspect that there was more than one attempt to
produce duchesse and the Brabant flavor was a less than top tier production.
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Also occurring around the same time period (late 19th-early20th c), I have
seen laces which are greatly simplified and somewhat larger scale than 19th
c
Duchesse, and which I've heard called "fine bloomwork" (fijn Bloemwerk).
This
latter is not as large in scale as modern Bruges bloomwork.

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I have a picture from eBay that show a bloemwoerk style that appears to me
to be on the way to Rosaline.  Truly transitional.
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Also, again, I have seen several examples of laces on the scale of this
"fine
bloomwork" but which have a needle lace ground, and I have never heard any
clear explanation of where and when that type was made.

...

Please be sure to report anything you find out.  I'd be interested to hear
the
answers.

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I am trying to synthesize a comprehensive framework to think about Brussels
part laces and their connection and influences with other laces.

Elements I am trying to synthesize and set in a timeline:

Point de Angleterre - [Neither English nor needlepoint nor BL point ground,
a misnomer altogether] fine scale raised work motifs with vrai droeschel
ground (like mechlin but more CT in the plait))
When I see lace so denominated, it is almost always an edging and the motifs
are frequently similar size and style but not the same pattern, so an early
lace (well before Duchesse).

Brussels lace - classic example is lappets made of all raised work motifs
with practically no ground of any kind.  Early 1700s.

The development of Brussels lace from Flemish tape lace.  Somewhere along
the line Flemish ground took a left turn and started making loop de loops.
Plaits started piling up and crossing each other and being added as a 3D
element for emphasis.  Eventually, raised work becomes the norm except in
Duchesse Brabant.

In Duchesse, over time, raised work becomes less and less until the 1800s
close with mostly gimp except for the leaves with taps.  

I don't know where Bloemwoerk fits in exactly.

Rosaline, developed in the 1900s.

Whithof of course is a 1900s lace.

And last, but not least, what the lace dealers did with all the motifs they
didn't use.  Are the appliqué Brussels laces new motifs, old motifs or a
mix?

I know that I have seen Duchesse and Brussels appliqué with BL motifs that
are not the same color, size of thread, degree of refinement, transparency,
or style.
        
I have a piece of lace that looks like never used very fine Valenciennes
that has had the headside cut to produce a slight scallop and had a false
picot edge sewed onto it.  It came in a box labeled Compagnie des Indes
which was Lefebure's company that was only in business for a few years in
the middle of the 1800s.  His lace company must surely have had stocks of
some older laces that could be reworked and sold.

So many clues and so few conclusions.

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