Hoi,
We have wasted too much time. Please reject wih prejudice.
We do not agree that the situation is similar to Latin. Latin is used on a
daily basis.
Thanks,
GerardM
Op wo 24 apr. 2019 18:10 schreef Steven White <[email protected]>:
> There are still different opinions on this: Gerard and Michael would
> reject the proposal, MF-W would accept it as eligible. Let me outline
> points of agreement first, then points of disagreement. Then I'd like to
> propose a next step, and see what people think.
>
> *Agreement: *
>
> 1. Even MF-W agrees that, at least in the short-to-mid-term, nobody is
> talking about pulling apart the current zhwikisource, and spinning the lzh
> content into a new project.
> 2. (I think) All agree that lzh served a role in East Asia similar to
> the role of Latin in Europe. Accordingly, policy allows a separate lzh
> project and doesn't demand that lzh content be moved into a zh project.
>
> *Disagreement:*
>
> 1. If we mark this as "eligible", does that mean that when the test on
> Multilingual Wikisource becomes approvable (if ever), we categorically MUST
> move all the lzh content from zhwikisource into the new project? Or can lzh
> content exist in both places?
> 2. (I think) Just because policy *allows* a separate lzh project
> doesn't mean it *requires* one; we can still require all lzh content
> to be put into the zh project.
> - If #2 is true, though, there is still a concern that the zh
> project will not meet the needs of non-Mandarin speakers with respect to
> lzh content.
>
> The only reason we really even have a problem is the bullet point under
> "Disagreement #2". If not for that, we could reject the language request
> without a problem. And I'm convinced that at present, that's more of a
> theoretical issue being put out by the proponents of an lzh Wikisource than
> it is a practical problem people are having right now. Still, we can't
> entirely discount it.
>
> In the short run, I think we could keep everyone happy by not touching
> current lzh content on zhwikisource, while allowing other lzh content to be
> created on oldwikisource. (There is precedent for allowing content on
> oldwikisource in parallel to content in a separate Wikisource, though in
> the main case I think of, Polish, that's done for copyright reasons. And
> we'd want to encourage some ground rules about duplication of documents,
> since that's not a concern in the Polish case.) Even if we agree to that,
> though, the question remains: How do we resolve the status of the language
> request? So here's how I see all the possible options playing out:
>
> - *Eligible. * This does mean that at some point, if the lzh test
> becomes approvable, we agree it can be approved. I'm OK with this option if
> the answer to "disagreement #1" is that we are not necessarily committing
> that all lzh content would have to be moved to an lzh Wikisource. We can
> kick the can down the road, and also don't have to commit that lzh content
> will not be moved, either. If we do this, I would make it clear on
> eligibility that we are not committing to what that means for the future
> for the current lzh content of zhwikisource.
> - *Place on hold. *(option 1) We can see if enough contributors
> actually come to work on lzh content on oldwikisource to make that viable,
> or whether by a year from now it becomes a non-issue. (option 2) It goes on
> hold because we decide that we're just not going to decide now, and we'll
> revisit it if and when that's appropriate.
> - *Reject. *This doesn't actually mean we don't allow lzh content to
> stay on oldwikisource. After all, there are a number of projects in ancient
> languages that have been rejected by LangCom but where tests still exist on
> Incubator because the rules for Incubator are less strict than the rules
> for subdomain project eligibility/approval. Since the rules for
> oldwikisource are even less strict than the rules for Incubator, the lzh
> "test" could stay on oldwikisource. But this option basically says that
> this content will always stay on oldwikisource.
>
> *My recommendation*
>
> - I think we need to leave the content of zhwikisource alone now, but
> allow additional lzh content on oldwikisource, with rules against
> duplication.
> - By process of elimination, I'd recommend "placing on hold" for now.
> I really don't see consensus coalescing here. Also, I think there's a good
> enough chance that this test never goes anywhere that we may as well wait
> to see what happens before committing to a decision. (And, to tell the
> truth, in most cases like this, where there is little actual activity in
> the test, that's what we actually usually do until there is proof of
> activity.)
> - If you're not willing to do that, I would go for "eligible" IF
> AND ONLY IF that doesn't mean we're committing to the future of any
> existing content either way. In principle, this lzh ought to be
> eligible,
> and there's nothing wrong with saying so. But if we think that
> "eligible"
> automatically means that content MUST be moved in the future if an
> lzhwikisource is created, then I would "reject", because I don't think
> that
> moving content out of zhwikisource will ever be a viable option.
>
> Please respond promptly to this if you will. I'd love to close this off
> (finally).
> Steven
>
>
>
>
> Sent from Outlook <http://aka.ms/weboutlook>
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