I see the Flash problem, but I was mainly thinking of DHTML apps. With Flash, you can do a lot with pure Flash without the need for injecting HTML into a page/view. That's needed for DHTML, and then it should be very easy - because every developer would expect it to be easy. Living inside the same DOM, it shouldn't be difficult to do it.
In the end it's the productivity for a platform which makes up the largest portion of the value. If simple things as using a bit of HTML code inside an Ajax app cost you days to do them, it will feel as if the platform has been over-engineered. Of course I'm aware of the technical details and difficulties, but sometimes simple solutions for one runtime are more valuable to cross-runtime magic. On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 6:29 PM, Max Carlson <[email protected]> wrote: > On 7/14/10 12:59 AM, Raju Bitter wrote: >> >> How can something as simple as injecting an HTML snippet into a page >> be so difficult? How many times did this discussion come up in the >> past years? > > Yes, everything takes longer than I'd like :). I don't know of a good way > to make the barrier between Flash and DHTML completely seamless. The fact > is, it's not simple under the covers. The question is, how do we make it > simple for developers by hiding some of this complexity? > >> If you'd make views accessible out of JavaScript that would make >> things much, much easier as well (I mean JS directly in the page, not >> within LZX). OpenLaszlo is artificially creating the same barriers >> between simple JS and the HTML page which we have in Flash. > > So the question becomes, how do you decide which Flash APIs you want exposed > on the JS/browser side? If you could do this, OL could create the necessary > proxy calls on your behalf and 'hide the seam' between Flash and JS. It > would also make it easy to proxy those methods directly into a containing > <html/> tag, making the calls fairly seamless. In that case, there wouldn't > be any difference to a developer between calling the view APIs directly a > <view/> vs. an <html/> with an embedded app. > >> @Ono: Try http://www.schillmania.com/projects/soundmanager2/, it's >> used by last.fm as well. Supports HTML5 audio playback on iOS, and has >> a SWF8/SWF9 playback components with 4kb/12kb file size. If you have >> an HTML5 OpenLaszlo app, it should be the perfect tool for >> audioplayback. > > Cool! You still have the API bridging problem though... And when you build > a Flash version of your app, soundmanager looks unnecessary :) > >> On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 7:42 AM, Ono Keiji<[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Max, >>> >>> Thank you for your reply. >>> In fact, i have tried embed swf into my app according to musicdhtml, as >>> following.But it did not work like musicdhtml,it was just written the >>> text >>> in the view. >>> My aim is located the swf in the given position into dhtml. >>> Many thanks for your advices. >>> >>> >>> <attribute name="htmlsnippet" type="string" value="" /> >>> <handler name="oninit" args="e"> >>> <![CDATA[ >>> canvas.htmlsnippet = "lz.embed.swf({url: >>> 'dum.lzx.swf10.swf?lzt=swf', >>> width: '100', height: '100', id: 'dumapp'})"; >>> ]]> >>> </handler> >>> >>> <simplelayout/> >>> <view name="v2" width="500" height="100"> >>> <text id="video" width="400" height="100" bgcolor="#cccccc" >>> resize="true"/> >>> <!-- >>> <html id="ht" src="http:dum.lzx.swf10.swf" width="400" >>> height="100"/> >>> --> >>> </view> >>> <button text="modify text" >>> onclick="video.sprite.setText(canvas.htmlsnippet)" /> >>> >>> >>> >>> Quoting Max Carlson<[email protected]>: >>> >>>> Thanks for filing the JIRA for the compiler issue! >>>> >>>> On 7/13/10 6:48 PM, Ono Keiji wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I tried as following after reading wiki of SWF in DHTML. >>>>> >>>>> 1.<videoview runtime="swf"/> this property has not implement yet. >>>> >>>> We need to add wideo and audio support for HTML5 - see >>>> http://jira.openlaszlo.org/jira/browse/LPP-9019 Until then, we need to >>>> embed swf to play video and audio. >>>> >>>>> 2.<html ...../> this can show the videoplayer in it, but don't know >>>>> how >>>>> to pass a video source from dhtml to swf. >>>> >>>> This is a great way to go for now. You can use the >>>> html.callJavascript() API to send a URL to the HTML embedding the >>>> player. You can use something like >>>> html.callJavascript("lz.embed.videoplayer.setCanvasAttribute('videourl', >>>> 'http://...')") >>>> >>>>> give me sample :< >>>> >>>> Let me know if you have more questions! >>>> >>>>> ono >>>>> >>>>> Quoting Ono Keiji<[email protected]>: >>>>> >>>>>> I filed this compile error to jira, lpp-9184. >>>>>> >>>>>> And return to the issue of<videoview> in dhtml. >>>>>> Are there any workaround idea ? >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you. >>>>>> >>>>>> ono >>>>>> >>>>>> Quoting Ono Keiji<[email protected]>: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Adding this, in audiokernel.lzx get compile error at swf9 over. >>>>>>> You can confirm it compile with 'audiokernel.lzx?lzr=swf10'. >>>>>>> It seems like that compiler dose not allow the canvas size >>>>>>> zero(width=0/height=0). >>>>>>> Is there any workaround or i should file it to jira? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ono >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Quoting Ono Keiji<[email protected]>: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Music Player(<view>) was works fine, but i have no idea how to use a >>>>>>>> video player(<videoview>). >>>>>>>> The size are zero in the example of 'musicdhtml', it is fine for >>>>>>>> audio. >>>>>>>> But video need width/height in it. >>>>>>>> When i want to set video player in arbitrary position in my dhtml >>>>>>>> application, >>>>>>>> how can i write a code ? >>>>>>>> Could you show me some example, if they are able to do, how to >>>>>>>> combine >>>>>>>> videoview and dhtml ? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thank you >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ono >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Quoting Ono Keiji<[email protected]>: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thank you Henry, >>>>>>>>> I noticed it. :) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Quoting Henry Minsky<[email protected]>: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Well, I don't specifically know what is happening, but whenever >>>>>>>>>> you have >>>>>>>>>> something that works in proxied mode, but fails in SOLO mode, you >>>>>>>>>> should >>>>>>>>>> always check two things: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 1) That flash permissions (such as a server crossdomain.xml file) >>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>> correct >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 2) That the MIME type of the media file is correctly being sent >>>>>>>>>> from the >>>>>>>>>> server >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 3:25 AM, Ono Keiji<[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I am now trying a swf, that is video player, into DHTML >>>>>>>>>>> application. >>>>>>>>>>> I found lpp-7818 and musicdhtml example, they works fine in proxy >>>>>>>>>>> mode, >>>>>>>>>>> but it dose not >>>>>>>>>>> work in solo mode. >>>>>>>>>>> I have tried as following, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> 1. main.lzx compile to dhtml >>>>>>>>>>> 2. audiokernel.lzx compile to swf >>>>>>>>>>> 3. write those in wrapper html as following, >>>>>>>>>>> lz.embed.swf({url: 'audiokernel.lzx.swf8?lzt=swf8', bgcolor: >>>>>>>>>>> '#eaeaea', >>>>>>>>>>> width: '0', >>>>>>>>>>> height: '0', id: 'audiokernel'}); >>>>>>>>>>> lz.embed.dhtml({url: >>>>>>>>>>> 'main.lzx.js?lzt=object&lzr=dhtml&_canvas_debug=false', bgcolor: >>>>>>>>>>> '#ffffff', width: '100%', height: '150', id: 'lzdhtmlapp'}); >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I use lps4.7.3, FP10, FF3. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Can i handle it in solo mode ? >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks in advance. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------ >>>>>>>>>>> Ono Keiji >>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>> URL http://www.net8.co.jp >>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> Henry Minsky >>>>>>>>>> Software Architect >>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------ >>>>>>>>> Ono Keiji >>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>> 1-45-11 Mizue Edogawa Tokyo JP >>>>>>>>> TEL 03(3676)6599 >>>>>>>>> URL http://www.net8.co.jp >>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------ >>>>>>>> Ono Keiji >>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>> 1-45-11 Mizue Edogawa Tokyo JP >>>>>>>> TEL 03(3676)6599 >>>>>>>> URL http://www.net8.co.jp >>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> ------------------------------------------ >>>>>>> Ono Keiji >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> 1-45-11 Mizue Edogawa Tokyo JP >>>>>>> TEL 03(3676)6599 >>>>>>> URL http://www.net8.co.jp >>>>>>> ------------------------------------------ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> ------------------------------------------ >>>>>> Ono Keiji >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> 1-45-11 Mizue Edogawa Tokyo JP >>>>>> TEL 03(3676)6599 >>>>>> URL http://www.net8.co.jp >>>>>> ------------------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> ------------------------------------------ >>> Ono Keiji >>> [email protected] >>> 1-45-11 Mizue Edogawa Tokyo JP >>> TEL 03(3676)6599 >>> URL http://www.net8.co.jp >>> ------------------------------------------ >>> >>> >>> >
