Re: Is a Fetus a Person? /Bill [was L&I Any ideas or help would be appreciated]

[Linda D. Misek-Falkoff, Ph.D., J.D.]

"Linda D. Misek-Falkoff, Ph.D., J.D." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:


Oh I see Bill, I can buy that, you're quite clear. It's like in the
Civil Code the rights vest at conception but they don't accrue til birth
(is that a valid extrapolation of your position? Hope you'll comment).
Something like that, you might sharpen my words.  But I see what you
mean and it certainly seems sound. 

Now perhaps we can still contrast the Ward criminal case that says
nothing vests at conception (or before) or after. Maybe the rights vest
and accrue and the same time <!?!> at birth.

On the practical level, there still seems a big gap between the civil
and criminal, and the civil would hold sway because it describes basic
rights that are vested and accrue long before the criminal act in focus? 

It still seems possible to resolve them by first not denying the
individuality of the existent fetus as a 'future person' (see Doc's
post) with primal dependicies on the mother. Second, one can posit that
the fetus has built-in desire or endowed right not to be harmed,
following from the mother's interest in  not being harmed and the
child's dependence on her being protected. 

I think worked out logically or mathematically this could be 'feature
inheritance' or something close.  But that's a bit dry, here in context. 
:) LDMF.
------------------William J. Foristal
wrote:-----------------------------
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William J. Foristal) writes:
> 
> Hi Linda,
> 
> I still think that the way the statute reads the fetus must be
> "subsequently born" before he/she can have legal standing with respect to
> any rights.  Yes, the large interest in the mother's protection and
> survival is paramount with respect to the fetus.  But the rights are not
> conveyed until after the fetus is born.  At least that's the way the
> statute seems to read to me.
> 
> And the cases where it would make the most difference is when the mother
> survives but the fetus dies.  Instead of murder the perp would be charged
> with a lesser crime.
> 
> Bill
> 
> On Fri, 27 Mar 1998 15:09:49 -0800 "Linda D. Misek-Falkoff, Ph.D., J.D."
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >"Linda D. Misek-Falkoff, Ph.D., J.D." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >writes:
> >
> >
> >H Bill - I am having a bit of trouble finding Susan's post of the
> >civil
> >statute. Here are two relevant paragraphs I had clipped out,
> >suggesting
> >that an unborn offspring is a child and thus a person, with life and
> >liberty rights. The crim case, though, goes to the mothers rights. Do
> >you think if the civil statute were to govern in the criminal context,
> >the child would have a large interest in the mother'sa interests (in
> >being protected)? That could IMO be a bridge between the two, and
> >perhaps the legslative intent of both sets of laws comingle here.
> >Sue?
> >Terry? Streve? Others?                                            :)
> >LDMF.
> >--------------------------- Code:
> >---------------------------------------
> >
> >CALIFORNIA CODES
> >CIVIL CODE
> >SECTION 43-53
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >43.  Besides the personal rights mentioned or recognized in the
> >Government Code, every person has, subject to the qualifications and
> >restrictions provided by law, the right of protection from bodily
> >restraint or harm, from personal insult, from defamation, and from
> >injury to his personal relations.
> >
> >
> >
> >43.1.  A child conceived, but not yet born, is deemed an existing
> >person, so far as necessary for the child's interests in the event of
> >the child's subsequent birth.
> >
> >
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