Sue Hartigan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Excerpts of Clinton's Testimony
Excerpts of answers that President Clinton furnished to
lawyers for Paula Jones in a sworn deposition given Jan.
17. At the request of the court, some women were
identified as Jane Doe.
Q: Did you at any time have any form of sexual relations
with Kathleen Willey?
A: No, I didn't.
Q: Do you recall, sir, that you met with Kathleen Willey
at or near the time of her husband's death?
A: The meeting I recall occurred before her husband's
death. She had requested, my recollection is, that she
requested several times to come in to see me.
------
Q: Having read a summary of her testimony are you aware
that she (Willey) has testified that you kissed her in
the hallway between the Oval Office and the private
kitchen.
A: I am aware of that.
------
Q: And do you deny that testimony?
A: I emphatically deny it. It did not happen.
Q: Do you know why she would tell a story like that if
it weren't true?
A: No, sir, I don't. I don't know. She'd been through a
lot, and apparently the, the financial difficulties were
even greater than she thought they were at the time she
talked to me. Her husband killed himself, she's been
through a terrible time. I have -- I can't say. All I
can tell you is, in the first place, when she came to
see me she was clearly upset. I did to her what I have
done to scores and scores of men and women who have
worked for me or been my friends over the years. I
embraced her, I put my arms around her, I may have even
kissed her on the forehead. There was nothing sexual
about it. I was trying to help her calm down and trying
to reassure her. She was in difficult condition. But I
have no idea why she said what she did, or whether she
now believes that actually happened. She's been through
a terrible, terrible time in her life, and I have
nothing else to say. I don't want to speculate about it.
------
Q: Has anyone purporting to speak on her behalf ever
asked you to pay money to keep this quiet?
A: Not to my knowledge.
Q: Do you recall at any time in that meeting with
Kathleen Willey saying to her, ``I wanted to do that for
a long time''?
A: No, sir. Let me remind you, Kathleen Willey asked for
this meeting with me. I didn't ask for the meeting with
her. I didn't say anything like that.
Q: Do you recall meeting with her again in the Oval
Office after she returned from her bereavement?
A: I remember that, it seems to me that she came in
there once with a friend of hers who was sick, who had
cancer, and we had a picture taken. I think you have a
copy of that picture.
------
Q: Do you recall ... that at some point she did receive
a job that was a paid position in the White House?
A: Yes, I believe that she went to work in the counsel's
office.
Q: What was the process by which she received that job?
A: I don't know the answer to that. After she came to
see me, and she was, as I said, clearly quite agitated,
when she walked out I said to someone, maybe it was
Nancy Hernreich was there who knew her -- ... that we
ought to see if we could do something for her, and
that's all I heard about it. I don't think I was
notified when she got the job at the counsel's office,
and I'm not aware of what she did there exactly, but I
know that she did get a job in the counsel's office,
which she held for some period of time.
------
Q. Did you have an extramarital sexual affair with Ms.
Lewinsky?
A. No.
Q. If she told someone that she had a sexual affair with
you beginning in November of 1995, would that be a lie?
A. It's certainly not the truth. It would not be the
truth.
------
Q. Have you ever had a conversation with Vernon Jordan
in which Monica Lewinsky was mentioned?
A. I have. He told me that he called -- he mentioned in
passing to me that he had talked to her, and she had
come to him for advice about moving to New York.
Q. She had come to him for advice?
A. Uh-huh. She'd come to him for advice about moving to
New York. She had called him and asked if she could come
see him, and Betty (Clinton secretary Betty Currie) I
think had maybe said something to him about talking to
her, and he had given her some advice about moving to
New York. That's all I know about that.
Q. Where were you when you had this conversation with
Vernon Jordan?
A. I don't have any idea. I talk to Vernon Jordan a lot.
Q. Do you recall whether it was on the phone or in
person?
A. No.
Q. What did he say that she had said to him in response?
A. He just said she seemed like a bright, energetic
young woman and she had certain interests, and he made
some suggestions to her and suggested where she ought to
go for interviews. That's all I know about that.
------
Q. At the time you talked to Vernon Jordan about his
conversation with Monica Lewinsky concerning her
possible move to New York, did you express any approval
or disapproval?
A. I don't remember. I think he was just reporting on
the meeting to me.
------
Q: Did you ever talk to Dolly Kyle, whose name is now
Dolly Kyle Browning, about Gennifer Flowers?
A: Yes, I did.
Q: Did you tell Dolly Kyle that you had a sexual
relationship with Gennifer Flowers?
A: No, quite the reverse. I told her that I did not have
one. I told her that -- specifically what I said to
Dolly Kyle, and I have, I took notes on that, was that
her story was not true, the story she had told was not
true.
Q: And when did that conversation with Dolly Kyle take
place?
A: It took place at my high school reunion, which was
sometime in the summer of 1994 or the late spring of
1994.
Q: I'm handing you what's been marked Deposition Exhibit
13. Is this Exhibit a copy of notes that you made of
something that happened at that high school reunion?
A: It is.
------
Q: Did you ever have sexual relations with Gennifer
Flowers?
A: ... The answer to your question ... is yes.
Q: On how many occasions?
A: Once.
Q: In what year?
A: 1977.
------
Q: About how many times did you visit the home of Jane
Doe 2 when her husband was not there?
A: I'm not sure. Probably, I don't know, four or five,
over a ten-year period, maybe a few more, maybe a few
less, I don't know, several times.
Q: And on those occasions, on any of those occasions,
were you alone in the house with Jane Doe 2, or were
there other people there in the house with you?
A: No, those are -- I answered the question you asked
me, on those occasions she was there and I was there
alone.
------
Q: What was the purpose of these visits to Jane Doe 2's
house when her husband was not there?
A: The fact that her husband was not there was
incidental. She was a friend on mine, and I would go by
and see her from time to time. I hadn't been visiting
with her in a long time. Sometimes I saw him when she
wasn't there. He was a friend of mine, too.
Q: So the purpose was purely social?
A: That's right.
------
Q: Do you know a woman named Jane Doe 1?
A: I do.
Q: Do you recall her visiting you at the Governor's
Mansion between the time that you were elected president
and the time that you moved to Washington to take
office?
A: I do.
Q: On how many occasions in that time space did she
visit with you at the Governor's Mansion?
A: I believe she was there twice. I believe she was
there twice.
Q: Was one of those occasions the early morning of the
day that you left to go to Washington?
A: I don't -- well, I don't know. She came by early in
the morning, either the day I left or the day before
that, sometime around then. She wanted to come by and
say goodbye, and she had to go somewhere else. She came
by early, I was up. I don't remember, I honestly don't
remember what exactly day it was, but it was close to
the time I left.
Q: Do you recall that Danny Ferguson was with you when
she arrived?
A: I don't have an independent recollection of that. I
know what the testimony was, but I don't actually have
an independent memory of that.
Q: Where did you meet with her on that day?
A: I believe in the basement, which we were sort of
using as the all-purpose office at the time, and which
was full to the gills of all kinds of things that were
being sent in from all over America, but it was kind of
an around-the-clock office for us.
Q: Was that basement room sometimes referred to as a
game room?
A: Perhaps.
------
Q: Have you ever given any gifts to Monica Lewinsky?
A: I don't recall. Do you know what they were?
Q: A hat pin?
A: I don't, I don't remember. But I certainly, I could
have.
Q: A book about Walt Whitman?
A: I give -- let me just say, I give people a lot of
gifts, and when people are around I give a lot of things
I have at the White House away, so I could have given
her a gift, but I don't remember a specific gift.
Q: Do you remember giving her a gold brooch?
A: No.
Q: Do you remember giving her an item that had been
purchased from The Black Dog store at Martha's Vineyard?
A: I do remember that, because when I went on vacation,
Betty said that, asked me if I was going to bring some
stuff back from The Black Dog, and she said Monica
loved, liked that stuff and would like to have a piece
of it, and I did a lot of Christmas shopping from The
Black Dog, and I bought a lot of things for a lot of
people, and I gave Betty a couple of the pieces, and she
gave I think something to Monica and something to some
of the other girls who worked in the office. I remember
that because Betty mentioned it to me.
------
Q: Has Monica Lewinsky ever given you any gifts?
A: Once or twice. I think she's given me a book or two.
Q: Did she give you a silver cigar box?
A: No.
Q: Did she give you a tie?
A: Yes, she has given me a tie before. I believe that's
right. Now, as I said, let me remind you, normally when
I get these ties, I get ties, you know, together, and
then they're given to me later, but I believe that she
has given me a tie.
------
Q: Now, seated to my right two chairs down is Ms. Paula
Jones. Do you recall ever having met her before today?
A: No. I've said that many times. I don't.
Q: Do you recall ever having seen her before early 1994
when she first made public her accusations against you?
A: No, I, I actually saw her on television then, just by
accident. I just happened to be walking by a television
in the office, and I remember I asked Bruce Lindsey to
come there. I said Bruce, do we know this lady? Who is
this person? That was my first surprised reaction.
Q: Before you saw Paula Jones on television, do you have
any recollection of ever seeing her before?
A: No, sir, I don't have any memory of it. But you have
to remember, I've met well over a hundred thousand
people since 1991, maybe over two hundred thousand,
maybe more than that. I don't know.
------
Q: Have you ever said to any of the state troopers who
were on your security detail when you were governor that
any woman had, quote, ``that come-hither look,'' close
quote?
A: I might well have done that. That's a phrase I have
used. I might well -- I don't have a specific
recollection of doing it, but it wouldn't surprise me if
I'd said that to a trooper.
Q: What does the phrase ``that come-hither look'' mean?
A: It means either in look or dress a sort of a
suggestive appearance from the look or dress.
Q: Sexually aggressive?
A: Yes.
------
Q: Between the time when you decided not to run for
president in the '88 election and the time when you
decided to run for president in the '92 election, did
you take any action to try to suppress any rumors about
women who allegedly had had extramarital affairs with
you?
A: I believe the accurate answer is that because of what
happened in the 1990 governor's race I took action to
try to prevent erroneous rumors from becoming public
news.
Q: All right, sir. What action did you take?
A: Well, if I could begin at the beginning. A man named
Larry Nichols worked for the state of Arkansas, and
while working there he developed quite a grudge against
me because he made 600 long-distance phone calls to
various right-wing groups with which he was associated,
and when it came out his boss thought the taxpayers
shouldn't pay for it and dismissed him.
------
He subsequently directed his anger at me and alleged
that I had had affairs with a number of women, so the
first action I took that I remember was he did this on
the steps on the Capitol one day in 1980, '90. A few
minutes after this press conference he had, I drove up
to the Capitol and a reporter confronted me with it. I
said to the reporter, this is the first I have ever
heard of it, why don't you call the women and ask them
if it's true before you run the story. That's the first
action I took...
Q: During the 1992 campaign, did you give Betsey Wright
the responsibility to deal with rumors about alleged
extramarital affairs involving you?
A: Along with the other charges that were made against
me.
Q: Okay.
A: Which, I, some of which I enumerated earlier in my
testimony. Someone had to, someone who knew me, at
least, had to deal with any charges that came up and had
to find the best way to respond to them.
------
Q: Now you're aware, are you not, of the allegations
against you by Paula Corbin Jones in this lawsuit; is
that correct?
A: Yes, sir, I am.
Q: Mr. President, did you ever make any sexual advances
toward Paula Jones?
A: No, I did not.
------
Q: Now, Mr. President, you've stated earlier in your
testimony that you do not recall with any specificity
the May 8, 1991 conference at the Excelsior. Is that
correct?
A: That's correct.
Q: If that is true, sir, how can you be sure that you
did not do these things which are alleged in Ms. Jones'
complaint?
A: Because, Mr. Bennett, in my lifetime I've never
sexually harassed a woman, and I've never done what she
accused me of doing. I didn't do it then, because I
never have, and I wouldn't.
------
Excerpts of answers that President Clinton furnished to
lawyers for Paula Jones in a sworn deposition given Jan.
17:
Q: Did you ever talk to anyone about finding a job for
Monica Lewinsky?
A: When she got the job in the legislative affairs
office? No.
Q: Before she got that job.
A: No.
Q: Did you ever talk to anyone about the possibility of
her obtaining a job in the White House?
A: She, she came there as an intern, and as several of
them have, she applied for some job there apparently and
got the job. I was not involved in her moving from being
an intern to being a full-time employee. I had no
involvement in it whatever.
Q: And you never talked to anyone about that?
A: No, I did not.
------
Q: Is it true that when she worked at the White House
she met with you several times?
A: I don't know about several times. There was a period
when the, when the Republican Congress shut the
government down that the whole White House was being run
by interns, and she was assigned to work back in the
chief of staff's office, and we were all working there,
and so I saw her on two or three occasions then, and
then when she worked at the White House, I think there
was one or two other times when she brought some
documents to me.
Q: Well, you also saw her at a number of social
functions at the White House, didn't you?
A: Could you be specific? I'm not sure. I mean when we
had, when we had like big staff things for ... like in
the summertime, if I had a birthday party and the whole
White House staff came, then she must have been there. I
don't remember any specific social occasions at the
White House, but people who work there when they're
invited to these things normally come. It's a -- they
work long hours, it's hard work, and it's one of the
nice things about being able to work there, so I assume
she was there, but I don't have any specific
recollection of any social events.
------
Q: At any time were you and Monica Lewinsky together
alone in the Oval Office?
A: I don't recall, but as I said, when she worked at the
legislative affairs office, they always had somebody
there on weekends. I typically worked some on the
weekends. Sometimes they'd bring me things on weekends.
She -- it seems to me she brought things to me once or
twice on the weekends. In that case, whatever time she
would be in there, drop it off, exchange a few words and
go, she was there. I don't have any specific
recollections of what the issues were, what was going
on, but when the Congress is there, we're working all
the time, and typically I would do some work on one of
the days of the weekends in the afternoon.
Q: So I understand, your testimony is that it was
possible, then, that you were alone with her, but you
have no specific recollection of that ever happening?
A: Yes, that's correct. It's possible that she, in,
while she was working there, brought something to me and
that at the time she brought it to me, she was the only
person there. That's possible.
------
Q: Has it ever happened that a White House record was
created that reflected that Betty Currie was meeting
with Monica Lewinsky when in fact you were meeting with
Monica Lewinsky?
A: Not to my knowledge.
------
Q: Now, have you ever spent the night at a home owned by
Jane Doe 7?
A: Yes, I have.
------
Q: Where was it located?
A: It was located in San Diego, Calif.
Q: And was that while you were president of the United
States?
A: Yes.
------
Q: Did you ever stay in the home of Jane Doe 7 when you
wife was not with you?
A: I believe I did once. I believe, I believe I did. I
do not remember for sure. I believe I stayed there once
when she was not with me.
------
Q: On that occasion did you have sexual relations with
Jane Doe 7?
A: Absolutely not.
Q: Have you ever at any time had sexual relations with
Jane Doe 7?
A: Never.
Q: Did you ever attend a party at the Hotel del Coronado
which was attended by Jane Doe 7?
A: She and her husband owned the hotel, and I went to
several events there, and I think they were there for
most of the events I attended.
Q: On any of those occasions were you in one of the
rooms of the hotel alone with her?
A: I don't believe so.
------
Q: Are you aware that a state Grievance Review Committee
investigated a complaint concerning the hiring of
Gennifer Flowers?
A: I have, I have a memory that there was some, that
there was a complaint filed against her. I don't
remember that it was about her hiring. I remember there
was a complaint filed against her.
------
Q: Do you remember that the committee found that the
procedure used to hire Gennifer Flowers was, quote,
``improper'' close quote?
A: No, I don't recall that.
------
Q: What was significant about this event (high school
reunion in 1994, where Clinton spoke with Dolly Kyle
Browning) that made you want to write these notes about
it when you got back to Washington?
A: Well, I think she was -- first of all, she was very
upset. Secondly, she was mad at me for not calling her
back in 1992 when she was the subject of a potential
tabloid story, and she thought it manifested a lack of
trust in her. Thirdly, she was mad about the Gennifer
Flowers story, and I told her it wasn't true, and she
said other people thought it was true, and Gennifer
Flowers got a $150,000, and she needed money too, now.
And then she told me about this book she was going to
write, said if anybody ever asked her, she would say it
was a fantasy, and I pointed out on two or three
occasions how we had been friends since she was a young
girl, and how I'd always tried to be her friend, and she
basically said she didn't want me to be her friend and
she was mad at me because I'd never been her lover,
especially since she thought I was now Gennifer Flowers'
lover, and when I told her Gennifer Flowers' story was
bogus and that many, many problems with it had already
been proven -- it's very hard to prove your innocence in
a case like this, but that we'd done it -- you know, she
just was very angry. That's basically what these notes
reflect. And I go through, I litanize here what we said
and how I tried to be a friend to her.
Q: Did she threaten to take some action such that you
thought you would need these notes to protect you?
A: No, she didn't threaten to take any action but I knew
she'd been through a really tough time, and, and she
said that she was virtually desperate for money, her
marriage had dissolved under very difficult
circumstances, and she had been a title lawyer making
quite a bit of money in Texas when the real estate
market collapsed, and there was a lot of lawyers lost
their jobs that were doing that kind of work, and I just
thought for my protection when I saw the kind of look
she had in her eyes and the way she was behaving I
should ask Marsha to listen to it and then we should
make notes after it was over. I wasn't paranoid like
this until things like this occurred.
--
Two rules in life:
1. Don't tell people everything you know.
2.
Subscribe/Unsubscribe, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In the body of the message enter: subscribe/unsubscribe law-issues
