Sue Hartigan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Excerpts from President Clinton's Deposition
Released on Friday, March 13, 1998
Following are excerpts from Clinton's deposition in Paula Jones's
sexual harassment suit on Jan. 17. They were released on March 13
by Paula Jones's lawyers, as part of their opposition to the Clinton
legal team's Feb. 17 motion for summary judgement. Jones's lawyer
James A. Fisher questioned the president.
Regarding Kathleen Willey
Regarding Monica Lewinsky
Regarding Kathleen Willey
Editor's Note: Kathleen Willey and her husband, Edward E.
Willey Jr., were prominent Democratic fund-raisers in
Richmond. After President Clinton took office, she worked
as a volunteer in the White House social office. On Nov. 29,
1993, she went to see Clinton about getting a full-time job
because her husband's real estate business was nearing
bankruptcy. According to Willey's sworn statements,
Clinton made an uninvited sexual advance, kissing and
groping her, in a secluded corridor just off the Oval Office.
Unbeknownst to Clinton or Willey, her husband had
committed suicide that afternoon.
Q. Mr. Clinton, do you know a woman named
Kathleen Willey?
A. I do.
Q. When did you meet her for the first time?
A. I believe in the presidential campaign of 1992 in
Virginia.
Q. She was married to a man named Edward E. Willey Jr., before he
passed away, correct?
A. That's right.
Q. And she and her husband donated money to your presidential
campaign in 1992, correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. And Kathleen Willey and her husband also did some fund-raising work
for your campaign, correct?
A. I believe that's right. I'm not sure, but I think they did.
Q. If she were to describe herself as a Democratic party activist, would
you disagree with that characterization of her?
A. No. I believe she was actually working very closely with Gov. Wilder
in Virginia in 1992 at the time I was running for president.
Q. All right, sir. On election night in November 1992, did Kathleen
Willey
and her husband travel to Little Rock, Arkansas?
A. I have no idea.
Q. You don't recall seeing them in Little Rock that night?
A. No. But, you know, we stayed up late and there were hundreds,
thousands of people there. I don't know whether they were there or not.
Q. Do you recall that after the election you personally called Kathleen
Willey and, to thank her for helping you to be elected president?
A. No, I don't remember that.
Q. After you became president, she got a job working in the White
House, correct?
A. I believe she worked in the social office. I seem to remember she
started as a volunteer. I'm not sure, but I think she was a volunteer.
Q. All right, sir. Do you recall that she was living in Richmond,
Virginia, at
that time and commuting all the way to Washington?
A. Yeah, I knew that she and Ed lived in Richmond.
Q. Do you recall approximately when she was working in the White
House as a volunteer?
A. No, I don't even � I don't know how many days a week she worked
and what hours she worked.
Q. Have you read any part of the deposition testimony given by Kathleen
Willey in this case?
A. No, but I have seen a summary of it.
Q. Mr. President, did Kathleen Willey ever give you permission to touch
her breasts?
A. No, I never asked, and I never did.
Q. Did she ever give you permission to kiss her on the lips?
A. No.
Q. Did you ever attempt to kiss her on the lips?
A. No.
Q. Did you ever attempt to touch her breasts?
A. No.
Q. Did Kathleen Willey ever give you permission to take her hand and
place it on your genitals?
A. No, she didn't.
Q. Did you at any time have any form of sexual relations with Kathleen
Willey?
A. No, I didn't.
Q. Do you recall, sir, that you met with Kathleen Willey at or near the
time of her husband's death?
A. The meeting I recall occurred before her husband's death. She had
requested, my recollection is that she requested several times to come
in
to see me. She wanted to come in and see me, and kept asking to do that.
MR. [Robert] BENNETT [the president's attorney]: Mr. President,
just answer his questions, please, sir.
A. And my � and she did come in to see me.
Q. Do you recall whether that particular meeting you just described was
before or after her husband's death?
A. That was before her husband's death.
Q. All right, sir. What, if anything, do you recall being said in that
meeting?
A. Well, my recollection is that she, that originally she wanted to come
in
to talk about moving out of the social office where she was not happy,
but
when she came in � that's what I had been told the meeting was about.
But when she came in, she said that, and she also said that she probably
needed a paying job, but she was, she was very upset that day, I
remember very well, and she didn't stay long, but she was quite
agitated,
and that was the only meeting I had with her, and she said that she was
faced, she was afraid that they, she'd have to contribute to the family
income, and she wanted a job.
Q. All right, sir. If she testified that that meeting occurred at about
three
o'clock in the afternoon, would you have any different recollection?
A. I don't have � I don't remember what time of day it occurred. I just
remember she came in and stayed a few minutes and talked to me about
her problems.
Q. Was anyone else present in the room while you were talking to her?
A. I don't think so, no.
Q. And was this conversation in the Oval Office?
A. I think it was partly in the Oval Office and partly in the dining
room I
have in the back, which is � my memory is she was quite upset, I asked
her if she wanted something to drink, she said she did, we went back
there, she got something to drink, I got something to drink, and I let
her sit
down at the table in the dining room, and that, and we talked a little
there.
I can't remember how much time we spent at which place, but she wasn't
there very long.
Q. Is there a hallway leading from the Oval Office to this private
dining
room?
A. Yes. It's very short. It's probably 12, 15 feet long.
Q. How wide is it?
A. Not wide.
Q. What did you have to drink?
A. I don't remember.
Q. Was it alcoholic?
A. Oh, no, no, I don't serve alcohol there in the office of the White
House.
Q. Not ever?
A. Never.
Q. Did she tell you that she and her husband had some large debts to
pay?
A. I don't remember that. What I remember is that she was very � she
was obviously agitated, and I'd never really had a conversation with her
before so I, you know, except in public, I'd see her, and she always
seemed sort of shy, you know, upbeat, positive, but this day she was
clearly concerned, but I don't remember going into any great detail.
What
I remember her saying is that her family, that there was some family
financial issues she had to deal with, and she needed to earn some money
to work there, and I had, I don't remember her going into any great
detail
about it. I don't think she stayed long enough to go into any great
detail,
but she was clearly upset.
Q. Do you recall, sir, that she said that one reason she was upset was
that
her husband was missing?
A. No, I didn't know anything about her husband being missing until I
learned that, that he was dead.
Q. Do you recall how many days passed before you learned that he had
passed away?
A. I don't. I don't think it was very long, but I don't remember.
Q. She took a leave of absence after her husband died, correct?
A. I don't know what she did. When I heard that he was dead and that he
apparently killed himself, I called her and expressed my condolences and
said that she could take whatever time she needed. It was a brief call,
but
I remember that call and I don't know exactly what she did, when she
came back, or what the other facts are.
Q. Do you recall telling anyone in the White House that as soon as she
did
come back, you wanted to meet with her?
A. No, but I, I might well have said something like that, I mean, when
something that traumatic happens in someone's family, I might have
wanted to say something, I just had one of my speech writers' wife just
had a stroke. When he came back to work, I said something to him. I
might have done it, but I don't remember.
Q. So if someone in the White House testified that you told them you
wanted to see Kathleen Willey as soon as she returned from her
bereavement, you wouldn't find that implausible testimony?
A. It might well have happened. I just don't remember.
Q. All right. Having read a summary of her testimony, are you aware that
she has testified that you kissed her in the hallway between the Oval
Office and the private kitchen?
A. I am aware of that.
Q. And you're aware that she testified that you took her hand and put it
on your penis?
A. I'm aware of that.
Q. All right, and you deny that testimony?
A. I emphatically deny it. It did not happen.
Q. Do you know why she would tell a story like that if it weren't true?
A. No, sir, I don't. I don't know. She'd been through a lot, and
apparently
the, the financial difficulties were even greater than she thought they
were
at the time she talked to me. Her husband killed himself, she's been
through a terrible time. I have � I can't say. All I can tell you is, in
the
first
place, when she came to see me she was clearly upset. I did to her what
I
have done to scores and scores of men and women who have worked for
me or been my friends over the years. I embraced her, I put my arms
around her, I may have even kissed her on the forehead. There was
nothing sexual about it. I was trying to help her calm down and trying
to
reassure her. She was in difficult condition. But I have no idea why she
said what she did, or whether she now believes that actually happened.
She's been through a terrible, terrible time in her life, and I have
nothing
else to say. I don't want to speculate about it.
Q. Has she ever asked you to pay her money in return for her not
disclosing this story?
A. Not to my knowledge.
Q. Do you recall at any time in that meeting with Kathleen Willey saying
to
her, "I wanted to do that for a long time"?
A. No, sir. Let me remind you, Kathleen Willey asked for this meeting
with me. I didn't ask for the meeting with her. I didn't say anything
like
that.
Q. Do you recall meeting with her again in the Oval Office after she
returned from her bereavement?
A. I remember that, it seems to me that she came in there once with a
friend of hers who was sick, who had cancer, and we had a picture taken.
I think you have a copy of that picture. She, she may have come in and
said goodbye briefly and had another picture taken when she left, but
that's all I remember.
Q. All right. Do you recall any conversation with her about obtaining a
paying job after she returned from her absence?
A. I don't.
Q. I'm talking about the absence caused by her husband's death?
A. I understand. No, I don't. I don't know if one occurred. I don't
remember one.
Q. Do you recall, though, that at some point she did receive a job that
was a paid position at the White House?
A. Yes, I believe that she went to work in the counsel's office.
Q. What was the process by which she received that job?
A. I don't know the answer to that. After she came to see me, and she
was, as I said, clearly quite agitated, when she walked out I said to
someone, maybe it was Nancy Hernreich was there who knew her �
MR. BENNETT: Keep your voice up, Mr. President.
A. Maybe it was Nancy Hernreich who was there and who knew her,
perhaps it was someone else, that we ought to see if we could do
something for her, and that's all I heard about it. I don't think I was
notified when she got the job at the counsel's office, and I'm not aware
of
what she did there exactly, but I know that she did get a job in the
counsel's office, which she held for some time.
Q. Who in the White House would be responsible for receiving
applications for that job and making the decision who would receive it?
A. I'm not sure. The � Bob Nash runs the appointments operation, but I'm
not sure that it would have gone through him. It might have gone to the
person, might have gone to someone in the administrative line, like a
deputy chief of staff or someone like that. I really don't know. Perhaps
we
can find out for you, but I just don't know.
Q. Is Mr. Nash's title Director of Presidential Personnel?
A. I don't think so. I think his title is Director of Appointments. I
honestly
don't know what his direct title is, but when I deal with him, we're
dealing
with appointments to boards and commissions and things like that.
Q. All right.
A. Ambassadorships, Cabinet, subcabinet.
Q. Now, you appointed Kathleen Willey to travel to Copenhagen to serve
on the official delegation of the United States of America at a world
summit for social development, true?
A. She went as a White House appointee. I'm not sure I knew in advance
of her going that she was on the delegation. I don't believe I did. But
I
don't have any reason to know one way or the other. I'm not sure I knew
who was on that delegation.
Q. She did in fact attend that world summit in March of 1995, correct?
A. I don't know if she did, but it, it, if that's what the record
reflects, then
she did.
Q. And then �
A. I have no direct knowledge of that. I don't remember who went for the
United States.
Q. Was she appointed to serve on the official delegation of the United
States of America at a convention on biological diversity in Jakarta,
Indonesia?
A. I don't have any direct knowledge of that. Since, in preparing for
this
deposition, I have been informed that she was, but I don't believe that
I
knew about it at the time she went.
Q. Do you know who made the decision to place her on that delegation?
A. I don't. She had � was this after she had left the White House?
Q. Yes, sir.
A. She had friends in the White House who may well have recommended
her for it. I don't believe that I did, but I just, I don't know
anything about
that.
Q. Can you shed any light on the process by which she was selected to
serve on the delegation?
A. No. I'm sure there's someone in the White House who put that
delegation together who could do so, but I can't. I don't know.
Q. If you wanted to find out the answer to that question, who would you
go ask?
A. I would ask either the, probably my deputy chief of staff, John
Podesta, to find out. If it was a foreign trip, perhaps the, Mr. Nash.
Katie
McGinney, I don't know. But I have no idea how that particular
delegation was put together.
Q. Are you aware that she was appointed to a position on the Board of
Governors of the United Service Organizations Inc., also known as the
USO?
A. I am now. When I was told about her, I do not remember appointing
her, but that was a direct presidential appointment, so I assume at some
point that I actually checked a piece of paper which had her name on it,
perhaps some others, but I didn't remember it at the time until I
learned it.
Q. That position on the USO Board of Governors has a three-year term,
does it not?
A. I don't know. I make hundreds of those appointments and all those
recommendations are put together by Mr. Nash. If I wanted to know why
he was � literally in 90 percent, perhaps more, of the cases of all
presidential appointments, they're sent to me on a piece of paper which
says here's the appointment, here's the name of the person, and there's
a
brief description of the position and who has recommended the person
and then accept or reject, and 90 percent of the time I just get the
files
and I look at the position and I check it off and go on, unless it's
something that I know something about or care a great deal about. I just
trust the staff to handle it, so I would have no idea why she was
recommended or why she was appointed.
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