Sue Hartigan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
CHRIS BURY (VO) For the first time, prominent
feminists, who have remained largely silent about
Monica Lewinsky, Paula Jones and Gennifer Flowers,
are starting to speak up about Kathleen Willey.
PATRICIA IRELAND Because this is beyond the
idea of the likable rogue or the womanizer and really on
into sexual assault, sexual abuse.
PAT SCHROEDER This looks different. This is
clearly not consent, according to her testimony, which
may or may not be true, but clearly wasn�t consent and
is a very troubling set of facts. So I think that people
are
saying well yes, we really need to get to the bottom of
this.
CHRIS BURY (on camera) Since the Lewinsky
scandal first unfolded, the White House has often cited
the continuing grand jury investigation or the advice of
counsel in refusing to release facts or documents. The
sudden gush of information in the wake of Kathleen
Willey�s interview shows how quickly those legal
arguments fade from view when it suits the President�s
political purpose.
This is Chris Bury for Nightline in Washington.
TED KOPPEL When we come back, we�ll talk to
the head of that White House information machine,
President Clinton�s director of communications, Ann
Lewis. (Commercial Break)
TED KOPPEL In a moment, we�ll be joined live by
White House communications director Ann Lewis, but
first some more results from that ABC News poll
conducted this evening. Respondents draw a clear
distinction between allegations of consensual sex and
the incident charged by Kathleen Willey. The alleged
affair with Monica Lewinsky, for example, draws the
equivalent of a statistical shrug. If true, only 35 percent
say that it reflects on the President�s judgment.
Sixty�two percent say it has nothing to do with the job.
The numbers are almost exactly reversed in the
Willey case. If those allegations are true, 59 percent
feel that it reflects on the President�s judgment. Only 35
percent say it has nothing to do with the job. Indeed,
when asked specifically about the two charges, only
nine percent found the charge of an affair with Lewinsky
more serious while 69 percent found the Willey charges
to be more serious. Knowing what they know about the
charges right now, however, two out of three Americans
say the President should remain in office.
Joining me here in our Washington studios now,
White House communications director Ann Lewis. Why
do you think that the Willey charges are potentially so
explosive? I mean I�m inferring from the poll figures
there that the American public at least views them that
way.
ANN LEWIS Yeah, I thought the figures you read to
me sort of match what I think a common sense
response would be, which is the public says if, in fact,
there was something happened which was of an
unpleasant nature � and that is the charge that is
being made here, unwanted�that is serious. Now at
the same time, and I think that�s very interesting that
given that information, the public seems able to
distinguish and say these are just allegations because
you�ve got that rather strong total saying well the
President ought to go on being president. He should do
the job we elected him to do.
But I think they have made a very important
distinction in their minds and I would agree that some
of the charges we have heard recently, again, if, and
it�s a big if, that would be a pretty serious question and
it should be treated, therefore, in a very serious way.
TED KOPPEL I understand that you are not only a
Clinton loyalist, but an extremely hard�working one
and, therefore, I would assume that you would say I
believe the President, that�s why I don�t believe
Kathleen Willey. But why should the American public
not believe Kathleen Willey?
ANN LEWIS I think the American public has heard
the President. Let me put this in some context. We�ve
been through a year in which the American public have
seen some lurid headlines, some very sort of rather
over - hyped sometimes allegations which, in the light
of day, as more and more information becomes
available, puts it in perspective and faded and I think
one of the, perhaps one of the dynamics that�s going on
here and one of the reasons for the kind of poll figures
you�ve seen is that the public by now has had some
experience with this and understands that when
charges of such a serious nature are made we should
take our time and be sure we have more information.
I would remind you, there�s a big difference, Ted, as
you know, between a news cycle, which is very rapid,
and the legal system cycle, which can take a little
longer.
TED KOPPEL Indeed, it does, but ...
ANN LEWIS But exactly because we�re talking
about something that is very serious it deserves to be
treated in a serious matter and it means let�s get some
more information.
TED KOPPEL You�re operating on the assumption,
I believe, that Kathleen Willey is not telling the truth.
Why do you think that?
ANN LEWIS I�ve, again, as you, have heard the
President say that. I must say when I first heard
Kathleen Willey�s name come up earlier this year, I was
quite startled because I remembered meeting with her
and having had my own personal experience with
someone who came to see me, who said I very much
want to work in this campaign, I�m very proud of my
association with the President. I really thought for a
moment they must be talking about somebody else and
when I ...
TED KOPPEL You find that inconsistent with the
charges which she�s now making?
ANN LEWIS I thought when I heard the comments
she made on �60 Minutes� about feeling angry and
betrayed and contrasted that with the conversations,
and we had several conversations, that there was a
difference there and it was, frankly it was because I
thought I had a personal experience on this that ought
to be part of the public record that I went out and talked
about it yesterday morning.
TED KOPPEL Let me read you something else.
We heard something that Ann Lewis said and we just
saw something that Ann Lewis said. Let me read you
something that Ann Lewis said on October 10, 1991.
And this, of course, was in the case of Clarence
Thomas and Anita Hill. You said, �You don�t know what
it�s like to be a young working woman, to have this
really prestigious and powerful boss you think you have
to stay on the right side of him or for the rest of your
working life he could nix another job. If you have trouble
listening to women�s voices, please listen to what I said
again. I said she was trying to stay on his right side
because her economic career would be at stake. He
was always going to be on her resume. This was her
most prestigious, most powerful boss. It was in her
interests when she stopped working for him to
refashion that relationship so it would be friendly but
distant and proper.�
Now, those same words could have been said about
Kathleen Willey with regard to the President, could they
not?
ANN LEWIS People will draw their own
conclusions. I want to point out some differences from
the Anita Hill situation. The first is you may remember
when women organized so strongly on behalf of Anita
Hill, it was to insist that she have a chance to tell her
story. The Senate was going to vote on that
confirmation without even listening to her. So when
women got up and said no, you must listen, she must
be heard, that was a very important point. That
obviously is a big difference between the case we�ve
had today.
The second, and this goes, I think, clearly to the
question you just raised with me, is that Anita Hill was
the target of some vicious personal attacks on the
record on the floor of the Senate. I went back before
tonight because I thought this might well come up and
reread some of the charges that were made, some of
the language that Orrin Hatch used. Do you remember
him holding up a copy of �The Exorcist?� Do you
remember him on the floor of the Senate using words
referring to her as �bitter� and sort of disgruntled. Now,
because we had that example of what was the wrong
way, and that was an attack, and I think we�ve all
learned, I would hope we�ve learned, that one of the
things we learned was that�s not appropriate behavior.
I appreciate hearing from some of the people who
were actually the leaders in that attack on her today,
then, who are saying today oh, well that�s the wrong
thing to do. For those of us who said that was wrong
then, we still think it�s wrong and ...
TED KOPPEL I raised it ...
ANN LEWIS � what we have been very careful to
say, Ted, and that goes to your question is I�m not
characterizing her behavior. I�m not using any
adjectives here.
TED KOPPEL No, I know you�re not ...
ANN LEWIS I�m trying to give you some facts.
TED KOPPEL I understand. I know you�re not
characterizing and I want to come back to the question
that I was raising with you, which you still haven�t
addressed. But we�ll do that in just a moment
ANN LEWIS Oh, OK.
TED KOPPEL. We�ll be back with more in a
moment. (Commercial Break)
TED KOPPEL And I�m joined again by White
House communications director Ann Lewis. The
question I was trying to raise with you before, and the
White House has made much today of these friendly
little notes that Ms Willey sent to the President, is that
in
your comments there a few years back you were
making precisely the point that a woman who needs a
job, who is concerned about what a powerful man might
say about her or do to her in the future might very well
do just that without there having been anything between
the two of them, at least as far as she is concerned.
ANN LEWIS That�s quite right and again ...
TED KOPPEL Then why shouldn�t ...
ANN LEWIS I don�t think ...
TED KOPPEL Why shouldn�t that be�so what was
the point of releasing all those memos or letters?
ANN LEWIS This is information that ought to be on
the public record. Let me, again, be clear. I think the
principle is because the issue of sexual harassment is
important to women, as it is, does not mean that we
say that therefore there should only be one kind of
information ever released. It never meant that any
discussion can only be framed in terms of accusations
and never say whether or not there was other facts,
other information that ought to be part of the public
record.
TED KOPPEL Fine, as long as ...
ANN LEWIS That would be to trivialize the issue.
TED KOPPEL Right. As long as ...
ANN LEWIS I�m trying to take it seriously.
TED KOPPEL As long as we�re looking at it, in
other words, those letters could be read either one of
those two ways?
ANN LEWIS That as long as we have the
information, people can make their own decisions as
long as they have it in a full context. But I would say
this
is not an issue that should be discussed only in one
dimension, only by saying here�s the accusation and
now we�re just going to be silent. That would be to
marginalize an issue that I think, again, should be taken
more seriously and I would repeat from what we�ve
seen in the polls, I think the American people do take a
more serious view of it and a more balanced approach
to it.
TED KOPPEL Now, as I�m sure you know, my
colleagues and I are very grateful for the fact that so
much information has been released, at least in this
case, but the question does have to be raised why only
in this case and not in the Lewinsky case? What is the
difference?
ANN LEWIS Well, the biggest difference is there is
no factual dispute between President Clinton and
Monica Lewinsky. President Clinton has said under
oath there was no improper relationship. Monica
Lewinsky has signed an affidavit saying nothing
improper occurred. So there is no dispute. The only
person, as far as I can tell, who�s still trying to make a
case of this is Ken Starr, who has literally tried to make
a federal case of it.
TED KOPPEL Yes. Ken Starr does have ...
ANN LEWIS And he has the information, does he
not? He has the documents.
TED KOPPEL He has the documents, he has the
audiotapes and there is, of course, the suggestion that
Ms Lewinsky came to see the President, what, some
37 times after she had left the White House? If the
White House wanted to clarify that, it could do so very
quickly.
ANN LEWIS Well, I would repeat that here is one in
which President Clinton has said nothing improper
occurred, Monica Lewinsky has said nothing improper
occurred. So I�m beginning to wonder more and more
it�s a little questioning just what is supposed to be in
dispute here.
TED KOPPEL Well, what is in dispute is all the
evidence that exists surrounding that and the question
of whether, perhaps, Ms Lewinsky felt that she was
being pressured to sign that affidavit. That�s what�s in
dispute.
ANN LEWIS Well, I�m not aware that she, she has
certainly neither said it nor has her attorney ever said
that she felt pressure on that one. So again, I do think
on this, there are some people, and I regret to say I
think we have an independent counsel who, after many
years and many millions of dollars, has been trying
very, very hard to find something, anything with which
he can criticize the President, who is sort of holding
onto this even though both parties to what would
otherwise be a disagreement are in agreement on this
one.
TED KOPPEL Ms Lewis, you were very kind to
come in. I know it�s been a long day. They�ve all been
long days, but it was gracious of you to come. Thank
you.
ANN LEWIS Thank you.
--
Two rules in life:
1. Don't tell people everything you know.
2.
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