On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 7:02 PM, Dmitry Boyarintsev < skalogryz.li...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 3:08 PM, Michael Van Canneyt < > mich...@freepascal.org> wrote: > >> On Mon, 25 Jan 2016, silvioprog wrote: >> >>> >>> Many units in Free Pascal and Delphi uses C libraries... when aren't >>> using >>> a C library (an API system call, an third party library call, etc.), are >>> using assembly, ie, mostly time Pascal is used as a high-level language >>> to >>> consume some low-level code written in C or assembly. >>> >> >> There is a simple reason: Debugging and bugfixing is a lot easier if all >> the code is in pascal. >> > > Here's another reason - cross-platform availability. > FPC is cross platform. To some extent (Java?) is more cross-platform that > C is. > Indeed. But the one of the basic steps before chosing a library (from any language) is read its specification, and know if it provides the needed features, works in the expected SOs, and provides a good documentation with a stable support. I need to make a device and it need a microcontroller, so I found that the best choice is a PIC16F64A because its datasheet shows all the features and the basic hardware that I need. Well, the mostly C libraries work fine in many OSs. One that I use works in the popular systems (currently I need it just for Windows and Linux) like GNU/Linux, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD, Android, OS X, Win32/64 and special systems like Symbian and z/OS, and it's already available in some tools like apt, yum, npm, maven, pacman... :-) ... (and if I have a chance from FPC team, I can make it also installable via fppkg tool too! :-D ) > When using an external library, there might be a risk that the library is > not *easily* available for another platform that is targeted. It's common > for open-source projects, not to provide any binary builds, requiring a > library user to build the library themselves. Luckily, the most common > projects do have some satellite projects that actually provide binaries. > That was the main problem that I also had, unfortunatelly. :-( For example: https://github.com/libharu/libharu/issues/118 Mostly Pascal programmers don't like C libraries they get boring because of the bugs like this, and can't fix the problem (lack time; doesn't have a C environment, or doesn't know C etc.). But, why not try to understand the problem? Is C so hard that a Pascal programmer can't understand that? I don't think so, if you already use pointers and played with low-level programming in standard Pascal, you can learn C too. Building C (C++) library could be a real pain for some Pascal users. > (Pascal spoils!) > Sad but true. :-( But they should try to get support from the library list. Some days ago I fixed a lot a problems in a C library (that's already a FPC/Delphi header) and now it works like a charm on Windows, Linux and OS X. But first time, I thought: "oh ktulu, why it doesn't compile plz..." ... but after trying to fix it by myself, finally I can fix common bugs in any C library, because complex bugs usually are already fixed by its maintainers. Building C/C++ library for a desired target platform, could be even more > painful, specifically if some sort of cross-tools required or when building > configuration needs to be changed. > Well, in mostly cases I just use the ./configure && make && make install-strip hehehe... On Windows I use MinGW, so I can compile C libraries easily, and when I got any problem to compiled that, I solve it easily too, by myself or getting support in the Pascal or C communities. :-) > Thus a pure pascal library would be a number one choice for most users. > With though it might be outdated and/or slower than its C-counterpart (i.e. > paszlib vs zlib) > I agree, but I can't find a hard problem that makes a Pascal programmer (beginner or veteran) not to use a C library even if it has already a solution that's not implemented in Pascal yet. :-) These days I took a look at FPC/Laz examples finding some solution to control keyboard/mouse remotely, something like a VNC, but just the control, without the server, and I found that, the components/MouseAndKeyInput package, that uses external libraries. On Windows and OS X it uses theirs APIs (they are external libraries), on Linux it uses the libxTst library, and I don't have problem to use this component just because it's using a third party external GNU library. After installing it via apt, the only problem that I got was create the library link on the /lib folder. But, unfortunatelly, even with this pros, Pascal programmers avoid to use external libraries, that's a real fact. :-/ -- Silvio Clécio
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