> > IDE For non-GUI devel
> > --------------------------
> > If you ripped out all the visual components in Lazarus it would still be a
> > good IDE.
> > Lazarus needs to be marketed then, not just for creating visual GUI
> > applications.. but
for
> > custom programs too. Eclipse seems to be known by some as a good tool, but
> > not
necessarily
> > emphasis on visual development.
>
> Eclipse is hyped. It's publicity and exposure is pushed by companies as IBM,
> something
that
> we can never match, even if we rewrote an entire Linux distribution in Pascal.
What I meant was, you don't need to rip anything out of Lazaurs, just a simple
"hide me"
button. Same as a minimize button. If I want to hide the component palette and
just to text
editing and CGI hacking, I don't see how this is destroying lazarus. It is
simply hiding the
component palette (just as you close off the object inspector when you do CGI
apps, do you
not? I do. My screen space may be more importnat than yours though, maybe I'm
just picky
here.).
> Actually, Delphi was first, and VB is the ripoff. I never heard anybody
Cool.. I didn't know this fact. I'll have to write about it on paswiki.
> I think the current Lazarus architecture should never be pluggable or turned
> off.
The components already are. Packages in delphi are. These are all
turn-off-able. All plug
ins or packages are "turn-off-able". So I don't know what you mean.
In no way am I saying to shut off the component pallette or unload it. I'm
saying to simply
hide it, as you do with object inspector.
>
> > Size issues
> > ------------
> > Linux 1MB elfs may go unnoticed, but on Windows people are highly sensitive
> > in this
area.
> > It is my advisory that if Lazarus wants to market itself, it has to solve
> > the 1mb
problem
> > (it doesn't matter what you think ethical priorities are, I know for a fact
> > this is one
of
> > the biggest turn offs, and even if it's not so important to you, it is
> > killing bringing
> > more people in to use lazarus. Looks and size matter here). People will
> > consider lazarus
a
> > toy until 1mb exe's are solved. People may use lazarus for serious CGI
> > development, or
> > serious low level Pascal development, or socket programming, but not for MS
> > Windows GUI
> > development until the 1mb issue is solved.
>
> I think this only goes for the niche shareware authors and hobbyists that
Absolutely not. I did not like lazarus and stayed away from it for 2 years
because of the
1mb executable. The only thing that brought me into the lazarus project was
Pascal Server
Pages, since PSP is not for delphi.
Beleive it or not: people are still worried about size. People love to download
a 300kb
application or a 300kb plugin instead of a 3MB one. Even people on high speed
internet
connections. When people see a 1MB exe that does very little, they think "java",
"bloatware".
> distribute to home users via dial-up lines. It is not a general problem. For
> corporate use it doesn't matter at all. Note that most commercial libraries
> are already
An 80GB hard drive will be filled up extremely quickly with 8MB exes that do
nothing
> compressed. Nothing keeps you from UPXing lazarus binaries.
Nothing keeps you from UPXing delphi binaries, which makes lazarus binaries
look even
sillier.
>
> In general binary size should never be a brake on functionality, unless it
> gets extreme. And 1mb is not extreme. IMHO 5 MB is not extreme.
This is your practical view. The reality is people have opinions and
downloading a 5MB exe
is still "silly" to many people, including myself. I have a 10GB hard drive..
If I'm a
developer and I keep pumping out 5MB exes into directories I'm compiling in, my
10GB hard
drive will get loaded up pretty fast. This is not the only issue, myself having
a 10GB hard
drive. The main issue is that people downloading application off websites get a
really bad
impression if the exe is 5MB and does nothing. They think java bloatware or
similar.
Again, this is not neccessarily a matter of practical - it's a matter of
opinion, a matter
of first impression. Kind of like if you go on a date with a person without
brushing your
teeth. Brushing your teeth doesn't make a better person, but it seems to make
people get a
better impression
> Create a site, be the maintainer. And more importantly, be a long time
> maintainer.
I am, I have several projects on the go at z505, and I am aggressively adding
hundreds of
thousands of pages to the paswiki. Which is why it took me so long to reply to
this email.
I believe c2 wiki has 20,000-30,000 pages, and I plan to top that some time.
Each of my
paswiki pages will be marketing pascal in indirect sort of ways.
>
> > Army of Pascal Users
> > ------------------------
> > An "army of programmers" who agree on some general tactics, is needed.
> > Maybe we should
> > start an Army Of Pascal Users mailing list to discuss marketing and tactics.
>
> Less discussion, more action.
I do take action, see my projects :-)
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